I actually used Franklin Hide glue on the first guitar I ever built. I was a noob and this before the Internet
But I still have this guitar and it's still holding up just fine and it's actually been through quite a lot.
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Old Brown Glue? |
Your thoughts? Anyone tried this stuff or even heard of it? http://www.oldbrownglue.com/index.html |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? |
Tried some, but it never got hard like HHG. Others have had different experiences, though, so it may be batch problems. However if I can't trust it, I won't use it. I let some dry in a plastic container, and it stayed like rubber for a month. HHG turns to glass over night. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? |
Ok, well that's good to know. Supposedly they are strict about there batches and freshness but who knows. I may get some and run some tests with it. Or maybe just make the jump to HHG but it just seems like a PIA to me as I'm not in my shop 8 hours a day every day and using it all the time. Plus the open time of this glue is nice, though clamping for 12 hours isn't ideal either. |
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| Author: | Bill Hodge [ Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? |
If you're looking for longer open time but still want a collagen type glue, I'd recommend fish glue. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? |
+1 for fish, much more reliable than liquid hide glue and every bit as good as hot hide. Best of both worlds in my mind. Fred |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? |
I would agree, re fish glue. Open time is long, like 20 minutes, clamp time is still about 12 hours, and it dries hard. Also, there are no batch issues, and it keeps much longer. It also works well thinned for things like flooding a rosette. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? |
Ok thanks for the advice. Sounds like fish glue has all the features I am looking for and is time tested. |
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| Author: | Shaw [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? |
I know over the years this question has come up from time to time. The same about Franklin's liquid hide glue. Now Fine woodworking magazine and a few other publications have tested these glues and Old brown glue lost out to Franklin's hide glue and they both lost out to hot hide glue. In the photos old brown glue broke at the glue line and not at the wood like any good typical wood glue would. Franklins held up much better. I actually used the Franklin's on and oak stool I made years ago and it is still holding up well at my moms house. I prefer typical Titebond over all of them. I don't buy into the better tone because of hide glue thing. Yeah I'm sure many here will disagree with that though. This just my opinion. Now if your are working on a vintage instrument that used hide glue I agree with using it there to help keep it s vintage integrity...Mike |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? |
I actually used Franklin Hide glue on the first guitar I ever built. I was a noob and this before the Internet But I still have this guitar and it's still holding up just fine and it's actually been through quite a lot.
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| Author: | grumpy [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? |
I prefer typical Titebond over all of them. I don't buy into the better tone because of hide glue thing. Yeah I'm sure many here will disagree with that though. This just my opinion. I've gone on record many times over the years and said that any tone "advantages" to using hot hide glue likely comes from the fact that using HHG forces the user to refine his/her joinery chops. You simply cannot have an ill-fitting joint with HHG. It forces the user to become more "intimate" with the joinery and clamping, since he/she has to be sure it will fit perfectly the first time, every time, and do it rather quickly. THIS definitely leads to better tone. What's indisputable, though, is HHG's 5,000+ year old record of solid joints, VS approximately 47 years' worth of guitars built with PVA(IE: Titebond-type) glues. And in that short period, we've seen clear indications of where the PVA's are lacking, with cold and especially hot-creep issues, visible ridges or depressions in top joints. The funniest thing is, HHG is easier to work with! I've had an 18 year old co-op student with me this winter, and he's been building himself a neat little guitar-shaped flat top mandolin while here. He had almost zero experience in working with wood, but plays and loves guitars, and his school principal lives near me and thought I could help him get a start in life as he had no idea of what to do when he graduates this spring(but I digress....). In the first couple weeks, he used nothing but fish glue, and fresh, hot hide glue. When he had the mandolin's body done and began the neck, he asked which glue to use for gluing the headplate veneer to the neck blank, and I pointed to the bottle of Titebond, and said "use the easy glue, since that's not a structural joint anyhow". So he spread a nice thin layer of Titebond, and spent the next 5 or 10 minutes fighting with the neck, headplate, caul and clamps, as they slipped and slid all over the place! The kid's beyond "good"; he's got hand-skills that amazed me on the first day, and still impresses me at every turn. Having never held a chisel until 6-7 weeks ago, I would dare say he's already got better chisel skills than most of you here! Yet he struggled mightily with the "easy to use" Titebond. <lol> When he was done, he looked at me and said "I thought you said that stuff was easy to use; you were kidding me all along, weren't you?" He honestly thought I'd pulled a fast one on him and had him use the toughest to use glue on this simple joint to teach him a lesson or something. My point here, with this long story? Titebond isn't easier to use at all. I knew that, and the kid proved it. Having never used anything ---BUT--- HHG and some fish glue before trying Titebond, he never wants to use Titebond again. End. Of. Story. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? |
Great reply Mario. I also have found Hot Hide and Fish as easy or easier to use as the Titebond style glues. Plus the belief amongst players that Hide produces better tone why may not be what everyone believes but is a great selling point on guitars. Even the big name companies have added custom shop models with Hide, and at a premium price. |
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| Author: | Bill Hodge [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? |
Well put Mario! I maintain that the collagen glues (HHG & Fish) are still by far best and easiest to use, provided as Mario said, you strive for prefect joinery. Perfect joinery is one of the main differences between high end quality, and not. And it makes things go together so much more nicely. |
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