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bridge practice
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Author:  nyazzip [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  bridge practice
i pried a bridge off of a classical guitar a few weeks ago that was being pulled off. after pondering it, i decided it is too twisted/deformed to glue back on, so i think i am going to try to make a new one. this afternoon i was just playing around, seeing if it is possible with the tools/skill i have. i think the hardest part will be drilling the holes....the piece here is some rosewood fingerboard scrap. it is slightly thin for the job, by about 2mm. i used the table saw and chisel to do most of it.
couple pics

Image

Image
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: bridge practice
nyazzip wrote:
it is slightly thin for the job, by about 2mm.


Save it for a later flamenco, and get a blank that is thick enough for the classical. You may not be happy with a too-low bridge and a lot of exposed saddle - that can add up to a lot of bending stress on the wood in front of the saddle slot, which is usually the first thing on a bridge that could possibly break. (The other is the tie block breaking.)
Author:  nyazzip [ Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: bridge practice
or, i was thinking of maybe making a rosewood sandwich, and building up the height that way; i think it would be unnoticeable. also the kerf that the table saw blade cuts is a little wide...may have to try the plywood blade, i think it is thinner
anyone know the reasoning behind rosewood bridges on classicals, and not ebony? i don't think i've ever seen an ebony classical bridge...
Author:  WilliamS [ Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: bridge practice
Ebony is too dense for a classical bridge. The lower tension strings wouldn't be able to drive an ebony bridge as well. I have seen it done but it's not ideal.
Author:  cphanna [ Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: bridge practice
I put a maccassar ebony bridge on my classical many years ago. It was pretty and sounded very nice to me. However, about five years ago I noticed that the saddle was leaning forward.
Close inspection revealed the bridge in front of the saddle slot had failed, just as Jim Kirby describes it. At the time, I sought advice here. Several experienced people suggested that I make a new bridge from rosewood, as it is less likely to fail in that manner. I don't personally have enough experience to know whether this is correct, or whether my bridge was simply too lightly built in that area. I don't know whether most builders believe there might also be tonality, balance, or volume issues with ebony bridges on classicals--but I will be following your thread to find out. I'm sure some very experienced classical builders will chime in to answer your question.
Patrick
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  bridge practice
Ebonies are, generally too heavy for classical bridges. It may have a sweet sound, but it will kill projection and headroom. I learned my lesson with Cocobolo. It has a great ring, unlike Ebony, which has high damping, but the weight is just too much for a strong classical guitar. I now try to keep bridges below 20 g. The results have been significant.
Author:  nyazzip [ Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: bridge practice
excellent, thanks. kinda what i figured...but then why don't the same rules apply to steel string guitars, because most of them seem to be ebony....?
guess it doesn't matter, just curious.
i wonder how i could weigh my bridge...does any one know an approximate 20g "standard"? like some coins or something? then i could make a little balance to check it
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: bridge practice
Harbor Freight has some little scales that are pretty inexpensive. May not be perfect, but close enough to know if you are in the neighborhood. The one I have is the little pocket digital scale. Works fine for stuff like bridges and weighing glues, etc.
Author:  nyazzip [ Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: bridge practice
weigh me up some american coins sometime if you think about it, and tell me what permutation is close to 20g....? that would be useful. i don't want to purchase a scale
cheers
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  bridge practice
Four teaspoons of water weighs in at about 20 grams.
Author:  John Arnold [ Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: bridge practice
Quote:
why don't the same rules apply to steel string guitars,

Steel string guitars have about twice as much string tension. The strings themselves are much heavier than nylon strings.
You can straighten the original bridge with heat. I use a small heat gun....the kind that is used in electronics.
Author:  JoeUlman [ Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: bridge practice
nyazzip wrote:
weigh me up some american coins sometime if you think about it, and tell me what permutation is close to 20g....? that would be useful. i don't want to purchase a scale
cheers


A nickel weighs 5 grams so 4 nickels = 20 grams, or in this case 20.2 grams.

Attachment:
IMG_2731 copy.jpg


Joe
Author:  nyazzip [ Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: bridge practice
Quote:
A nickel weighs 5 grams so 4 nickels = 20 grams, or in this case 20.2 grams

ah, much more convenient than water. plus a teaspoon of water weighs different amounts at different pressures and temperatures....but we're probably talking nanograms! :D
thanks
still wondering: if it is crumbly, and heavy, why is ebony liked on steel stringers? just curious, no intention of building one anytime soon
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: bridge practice
Steel strings are bright by nature - twangy, and thin sounding. An Ebony bridge that is heavy and has high damping kills some of that twanginess, and brings out the bass and mid side of the instrument more, giving balance to a tendency to be very bright sounding. Nylon strings, in addition to being lower tension by half, tend to be mellow and soft sounding when plucked. A light bridge with low damping allows for much stronger treble response thus making an instrument with balance rather than one with; "Wow that guitar has great bass, but I can't hear the trebles!"
Author:  nyazzip [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: bridge practice
good explanation, makes sense. thank you!
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