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| Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=35025 |
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| Author: | Jmc2010 [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
I'm looking at 2 pieces of cocobolo for my build, and I'm not sure which one would work the best as far as being easily bent as binding, and strong enough to use as a center laminate for the neck. Here are my choices: FRONT: Trying to decide between the left, and middle piece  BACK: Trying to decide between the left, and middle piece  Opinions please. I like the color of the middle one, but the crazy grain scares me a little bit.. Should it? |
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| Author: | nyazzip [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
i don't think i would use it in a neck; it doesn't seem very stiff edit: upon reading, it seems like most people disagree. my impression (last night) was that my piece did not seem as rigid as a comparable piece of ebony/rosewood/cedar/spruce |
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| Author: | Jmc2010 [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
nyazzip wrote: i don't think i would use it in a neck; it doesn't seem very stiff Yea, another one of my dilemmas. I really don't have any experience at this sort of thing, but logically it seems that the one on the left would be the most structurally sound piece of wood. Am I right in this assumption? |
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| Author: | nyazzip [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
i edited my post. i am a total amateur so i shouldn't be commenting. but to me, it doesn't seem as stiff as some other woods at this point |
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| Author: | Jmc2010 [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Use anything you want in the laminate. As for binding, once you bend it, anything works - binding is a small piece of would with a significant gluing surface. It's not doing anything once it is installed. Coco bends pretty easily, like many rosewoods. As for color - pretty irrelevant as it will oxidize. Figure (ink lines) will show to some degree. If you are doing a standard guitar body, I can't imagine grain orientation and runout will cause an issue. If you start doing strange bends ... maybe. My 0.02 cents. Filippo Great info Filippo! Thank you. |
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| Author: | dpm99 [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
There's no published Modulus of Elasticity for Cocobolo, but it's Janka (hardness) rating is 1010. Compare that to around 800 for Mahogany, 1010 for Walnut, and 1450 for Hard Maple. It's well-tested even for a one piece neck. As a laminate? No worries. |
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| Author: | Jmc2010 [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
dpm99 wrote: There's no published Modulus of Elasticity for Cocobolo, but it's Janka (hardness) rating is 1010. Compare that to around 800 for Mahogany, 1010 for Walnut, and 1450 for Hard Maple. It's well-tested even for a one piece neck. As a laminate? No worries. I actually looked for that data a little while back, and couldn't find it. Good stuff to know. dpm99, do you ever go over to McKinney Hardwood? I'm on my way over there today after work to take a look at their stock. |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
Coco works well in a neck as a laminate piece(s). It bends and works fine for binding. The choice of what to use for a particular part of the build is up to the builder. |
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| Author: | Jmc2010 [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
So, for future reference... How do you pick out that piece of wood that would be perfect for binding and laminating? What do you look for in particular? Thinking about it logically, not from experience, I would think that straight grain and flatsawn (so that when turned on its edge it is quartersawn) would be the best choice for a neck laminate. For binding, it seems that flatsawn or quartersawn would be good, since the binding is so small that you can orient the grain in it the way you want when you cut it. It seems that straight grained would be best here though, as runout could cause the bindings to break a lot easier when being bent? Especially in harder woods that are often brittle, like cocobolo. I'm not sure about any of this, and that is why I'm asking. |
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
For the laminate, I think you can use whichever suits your fancy. Choosing a straightgrained piece might add a little strength but I'm not sure it matters if you're thinking about a narrow strip of it. It'll be stable if you've got a nicely fitted surface. For the binding, I'd expect that you might have trouble bending some of the more figured pieces. I wouldn't try to bend those on a pipe. Perhaps if you're using a Fox-style bender it won't be problematic, but I'd think that the figure would bend unevenly, and perhaps crack. Caveat is I've never bent coco, for sides, or for binding, so take my opinion for what it is. |
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| Author: | gozierdt [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
I'm working with a set of coco bindings right now. I had exactly the problem you described with two of the pieces that had severe runout. One broke during the bending process (on a Fox-style bender with blanket heating). The other broke while I took the tape off the bundles of binding/purfling. I need to find a tape better than the blue painters tape for that part of the bending process. The adhesive in the blue tape sets up when heated. I think either flat-sawn or QS without runout would work, depending on the type of figure you want on the bindings. |
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| Author: | dpm99 [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
Jmc2010 wrote: dpm99, do you ever go over to McKinney Hardwood? I'm on my way over there today after work to take a look at their stock. Actually, I live only a mile or two from McKinney Hardwood. It's funny that you say "their" stock. There's no "their." It's just Mike. He runs the business out of a room to the side of his garage. That being said, he has some really nice wood. He's also a great guy, and I'd recommend him to anyone. His prices are good too. Unfortunately, he hurt his back a few months ago and hasn't gotten any new stock since then (that I know of). Still, bring money. He specializes in high quality stuff. |
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| Author: | Jmc2010 [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
dpm99 wrote: There's no "their." It's just Mike. He runs the business out of a room to the side of his garage. That's even better! I would much rather support a local small business than order from someone out of state, or a major corp. I'm pretty stoked to see what he's got. And his prices are great. $20bf for Cocobolo. |
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| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
If you use rift sawn, (wood where the grain is at a 45° when looking at the end grain) you will have the same appearance whether looking at the top of the binding or the side. L. |
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| Author: | dpm99 [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Choosing the right piece of wood for binding. |
Jmc2010 wrote: dpm99 wrote: There's no "their." It's just Mike. He runs the business out of a room to the side of his garage. That's even better! I would much rather support a local small business than order from someone out of state, or a major corp. I'm pretty stoked to see what he's got. And his prices are great. $20bf for Cocobolo. His Cocobolo supply was pretty small last I saw though. Make sure you check out everything he has. Last time I was there I got a beautiful piece of Pau Ferro (Morado) and some spalted curly Maple. |
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