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Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
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Author:  Lars Stahl [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
I Don't want to sound like an ass but I´ve been here for quite some time and think that if selling, it should be by "members" and I meen members that are here to discuss instrument building etc. not members who join just to sell items. ?
I see new names pop up with wood for sale etc. Claiming they have more stuff on ebay... I sure hope luthiers forum is not turning towards the mainstream area. Really love this place and it been giving me more than I could ever ask for. Just hope it will remain what its been.

What do you all think.

Lars.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
never gonna post on one of these threads again . im sorry i did this time . [uncle]
Author:  Jim_H [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
I agree as well. Seems like you could control it by not allowing links to or mentions of online auctions at all.
Author:  woody b [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
I'm not a fan of a bunch of rules. Also, the classifieds requires a subscription. The money from these subscriptions help pay the operating expenses of the OLF. If someone wants to pay a subscription to list some stuff, that's also on ebay I say go for it. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything.


Lars Stahl wrote:
I Don't want to sound like an ass but..............................................................................................................
What do you all think.

Lars.

What do I think?
I think if you feel the need to start a thread with that line, it would probably be best to not start the thread.
Author:  Ti-Roux [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
I agree. If we want to build wood from an ebay supplier, we'll find it on ebay. I see the classifieds section like a place for us, luthiers, to exchange wood and tools from our private stock, or something like that, convivial.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
Ti-Roux wrote:
I agree. If we want to build wood from an ebay supplier, we'll find it on ebay. I see the classifieds section like a place for us, luthiers, to exchange wood and tools from our private stock, or something like that, convivial.
I think I would agree with Ti-Roux on this. I like the idea of sellers in the classified section having a vested interest in the health of the OLF by participating and interacting, and not just as a means to sell their' goods. Active OLF participants know that there is accountability when they sell stuff in the classifieds. I don't mean to imply that anyone would misrepresent their goods, but if they are only here to sell tonewood as a business, it is a disservice to the OLF sponsors who pay more than $12 a year.

Alex
Author:  Rod True [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
Honestly, having been here from the beginning I don't really think it matters. I know EXACTLY who I'll always get my supplies from! From a forum sponsor or someone I've seen here for quite some time. Newbies joining up just to sell stuff.....who's to say they can't? They are paying to list, doesn't mean we have to support them.
Author:  truckjohn [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
I'm kinda there with Rod...

Luthier supplies/tonewood are an extrordinarily limited market... There are only a handful of English language "Luthier" related forums in the entire world.. Most don't have active classifieds.... This may be one of the only Forums on the net that people can sell stuff like this...

So... If someone wants to pay money offer stuff for sale on the board... It's ok with me... If you don't want to buy from those folks - you don't have to....

Now.. Sure - I would love to encourage them to participate... Some buy lots of parts when instruments are warrantied... Some just love wood and get a kick out of their best wood going into Guitars rather than into the fire or into fence posts... Etc...

Thanks
Author:  parrotheadmj [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
Good discussion but I think if someone is going to raise a "problem" they should bring the solution to the table as well.

Marc
Author:  alan stassforth [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
I think if you know the person from the forum,
and feel good about them,
buy.
If one doesn't know the person selling,
don't buy unless you want to take a chance.
Author:  Nathan Hampton [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
I'm one of those jerks that your talking about. I don't really participate on the forum too much, but I have been a member for a while, and I check in daily. I would have thought that people would have been excited to see a better, less expensive flow of nice tone wood, but I guess not. Sorry for crashing in on your private forum.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
Why are we so quick to criticize I until we are sure there is a problem. I'm in the Classified every day, and I haven't seen more than one or two even suspicious posts. I don't get why we think someone new can't post something. I have seen members post on E-Bay too.
Author:  Tim L [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
I agree with Rod. What difference does it make? It can be hard enough to find good wood. If you feel it is too risky, you don't need to be involved. I really enjoy my freedom and would be really pissed if someone decided I had to buy all my wood from BROCK !!!! Everyone who lists something for sale in the classified is financially supporting the forum, whether they regularly post or not.

"Caveat Emptor"

Tim
Author:  sprouseod [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
you took the words right out of my mouth
"Caveat Emptor"
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
First of all. Nathan... I never called anyone a jerk !!. Are you a guitar builder, if so, I would love to share, chat and see stuff you´ve built. Yes, I feel a bit its like a private forum for luthiers of all sorts, but thats just me. I did not try to offend you.

Seriously. what I was trying to say is this - If anyone can just pay 12 bucks to get on the classifieds to sell woods like it was ebay, then why would we have sponsors like our good friends on top of this page ?. I think the sponsors are paying way more than 12 bucks. If then anyone can pay 12 bucks to compete with their business then whats the use to be a sponsor. Perhaps this is why some of them left ?.
I for one see this place as a hangout amongst good friends/luthiers. where we share ideas, views on life and talk about guitar building etc. Perhaps I am a bit old fashion ! But if everyone would through garbage on the floor, their would be a lot of garbage ! (as the saying goes) - So soon this will be ebay, with no personality left at all.
If I don't make sense its because I am from Sweden, blond and dumb hahaha.

Also. what is sold in the classifieds is also shown in the "guitar building section". If if was only shown in the classifieds or the "NewEbay" Section I wouldn't care less.

And hey Woody b. well said. 47 y old... As they say, age is just a number [:Y:] :D

Last thing ... Perhaps you ought to look up the meaning of words before writing latin :D (the risk is on the buyer !! ) ok .. and ???. Where I come from, there is not risk, as you are amongst friends !!! See. This is what I was talking about..... and thats why I felt its good to not make this a ebay business !!! because then the risk is on the buyer !!! but hey .... "Jure humano"

Peace. Lars.
Author:  dpm99 [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
I think the solution, if we (and Lance) wanted one, would be to restrict Classifieds membership to members with more than twenty posts or so. However, it seems not so long ago everybody was complaining that there wasn't anything being listed in the classifieds except by Sniggly. Anybody remember that? I'm all for letting anyone sell there. I'm also for open viewing for anyone that wants to buy there, but I understand I'm not thinking from Lance's perspective. And I want the forum to be financially solvent, at least.
Author:  Tim L [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
Lars,

The translation is "Let the buyer beware". To me that does not necessarily mean risk but means be sure of what you are doing. I prefer to buy wood from people that I know and have dealt with for years. Even then I need to pay attention to what I am selecting. Would that be risk? Really don't want to get into the friends and money thing, but I would really not like to see the classified regulated to a selected group of people. I joined this forum for the exchange of ideas in something that all are interested in and in the long run hopefully further innovation. It was never represented as a private club and if it were a lot of people would be excluded. Who would you throw out first?

OH OH maybe I shouldn't have asked that
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
Quote:
OH OH maybe I shouldn't have asked that
laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe . well those who are here for the wrong reasons perhaps.
I hate regulations to, I am not the perfect citizen either. Just don't see the same "faces" much in this forum as was seen a while back and I was thinking I saw a reson to that.

I think what I was writing sounded bigger than my intention. [uncle]
not much of a city person, prefer the country, due to the smaller crowd :D

Lars.
Author:  Orion Thomas [ Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
Lars, I can sympathize with your perspective but I am one of the relatively new guys that also loves this site. It takes time and money to run a site like this and it doesn't seem like much to ask in allowing whomever to list in the classifieds as long as it's luthier related.
Author:  Andy Birko [ Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
Could have sworn I hit submit on this message but I must not have....

Anyway, I don't have a problem with it.

I do however have a problem with the new sellers (and regular members for that mater) who aren't providing their full name. If you want to participate on this forum, you should be required to provide your full name. If you're not comfortable doing so, there are other forums.
Author:  Mark Groza [ Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
WaddyThomson wrote:
Why are we so quick to criticize I until we are sure there is a problem. I'm in the Classified every day, and I haven't seen more than one or two even suspicious posts. I don't get why we think someone new can't post something. I have seen members post on E-Bay too.

+1 I agree! I see those at the top of this page selling on ebay allthe time and it's just fine with me. It's just more great wood to go around. :)
Author:  york [ Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
Quote:
...I don't really think it matters. I know EXACTLY who I'll always get my supplies from! From a forum sponsor or someone I've seen here for quite some time. Newbies joining up just to sell stuff.....who's to say they can't? They are paying to list, doesn't mean we have to support them.


Have to agree with Rod. I've been to other forums that were more tightly controlled. Though I understand the reason for a lot of it, I enjoy this forum for its openness. As a result of that, and the links often provided, we have more opportunities to explore ideas, products, vendors, etc. Members here help "control" the forum by airing ideas like the one here by Lars, and by sharing experiences about vendors, less reliable folks are weeded out. Lars brings up an interesting point. It is something worth consideration and keeping an open eye toward. Being proactive is good, folks sometimes get carried away with being preventive (not implying at all that Lars is doing that).

I would hope we all try to support sponsors first and then go on from there when necessary. If permitting "occasional" members to post in the classifieds helps keep the doors open without jeopardizing sponsors, and give us more oportunities and information, then the better it is for all of us.
Author:  Rod True [ Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
Let me try to help you out Lars,

Lars Stahl wrote:
Seriously. what I was trying to say is this - If anyone can just pay 12 bucks to get on the classifieds to sell woods like it was ebay, then why would we have sponsors like our good friends on top of this page ?. I think the sponsors are paying way more than 12 bucks. If then anyone can pay 12 bucks to compete with their business then whats the use to be a sponsor. Perhaps this is why some of them left ?.


$12/ year per person for access to the classified section, hardly keeps the lights on, let alone makes up for Lances commitment and work for keeping the forum going. if anything, it's a bit of a bonus (a thank you or tip, if you will) to Lance for hosting such a great "Pub" for us to hang out in.
The sponsors pay to keep the lights on and probably some financial gain for Lance (probably not much) and in return, the sponsors get first crack advertising, right on the entry to the "pub" for all to see. Now remember, if you want to view the classified section, you had to pay too. So this is sort of like a back room in the Pub, an exclusive section were we can go and sell our own wares, despite the presence of strong sponsorship posted on the front door.
Anyone can come into the pub where we can hang out and share our love of guitar making and our lives, but it's sort of a gamble as to what you get when you walk into that private room at the back. Who ever pony's up the fee to get in get's in, no exclusions. It's more like a back door room, than an exclusive section, and back door rooms can and offten do allow for some rif raf (i'm not calling anyone rif raf....), but that's the "risk" one takes for going out back ;)

Lars Stahl wrote:
I for one see this place as a hangout amongst good friends/luthiers. where we share ideas, views on life and talk about guitar building etc. Perhaps I am a bit old fashion ! But if everyone would through garbage on the floor, their would be a lot of garbage ! (as the saying goes) - So soon this will be ebay, with no personality left at all.
If I don't make sense its because I am from Sweden, blond and dumb hahaha.

I've been here since day one, it really use to be like the small town pub, but it's grown into a much larger establishment these days. Only a few of the "old timers" remain, and I've only have met a couple of the newer guys, you included, but as for throwing garbage on the floor, heck it happens in every pub from time to time, and not just in the back door room, but on the dance floor and right at the bar stools too. And sometimes, folks barf all over the bar and that can be a real mess.

It can be a messy business owning a pub, but it can also be very rewarding. I for one really like this pub and although I sometimes hang out at other pubs, I still call this one home.
Author:  DennisK [ Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
:lol: I like Rod's analogy. I'm perfectly happy with the way things are, and welcome Nathan heartily.

Shouldn't this post be in "community forum issues" rather than "guitar building"?
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Enoyed !!! Is this place becoming a substitute for ebay ??
I do agree to what you wrote Rod. although
Quote:
Only a few of the "old timers" remain
and why is that ? .
A long time back I spoke up about this forum becoming a marketplace for selling stuff, I am not sure anyone remember that, but it became a lot of voice about me saying so. then what happened ? well a lot of folks lost good money to someone selling wood here, then the tone of most of you all changed !!

Anyway its not a big thing. Whatever keeps the boat floating is good i guess. Sometimes when things comes down in writing and there is no face behind the text, words tend to become stronger than what they really are. pizza .

Lars.
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