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| PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=34937 |
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| Author: | DarrenFiggs [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
Anyone have details on this new finish they are offering on their Collector's Series guitars? |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
I remember Michael Dresdner telling me years ago about saving cigar ashes to do really fine finishes on furniture.... I don't think he mixed it with anything. Just a slightly greasy palm and ashes scattered along as he worked to put the final shine on the piece. |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
![[xx(]](./images/smilies/smiley11.gif "Dead") Put's a whole new meaning to "Tobacco burst"  The other thing I can think of is that Carbon Black (AKA Lamp Black) makes the most beautiful, black finish.... It's a super duper pure black finish that never fades.... and it was historically gotten from lamp soot... Thanks |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
My personal favorite was the "Dog hair" finish by one of the larger acoustic manufacturers... I sat there thinking to myself - What's the big deal? I get dog hair in every guitar I make and I don't even charge extra....  Thanks |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
For some reason, and maybe somebody can tell me why, I keep getting white dog hairs in me finishes? Oh, if ya need ashes, I could send ya some! Postage would be pretty cheap. |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
alan stassforth wrote: For some reason, and maybe somebody can tell me why, I keep getting white dog hairs in me finishes? Oh, if ya need ashes, I could send ya some! Postage would be pretty cheap. Padma! We've missed you buddy! |
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| Author: | DarrenFiggs [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
So it's as simple as taking the soot and rubbing it straight onto the wood? Simple enough, I gotta try it. I hope oil varnish over the top of it won't hurt anything. I found out PRS calls it "London Soot" Ha! |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
Quote: So it's as simple as taking the soot and rubbing it straight onto the wood? Simple enough, I gotta try it. I hope oil varnish over the top of it won't hurt anything. I found out PRS calls it "London Soot" Ha! Ummmm... I don't think it's put on the raw wood.... I could have gotten the wrong idea, too. Dresdner used it to polish the finish, not the wood. Mebbe you ought to talk to someone at PRS? |
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| Author: | Dave Stewart [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
I could see the logic of rubbing ashes, then sandback "to the white" (which should leave the grain slightly enhanced), then sealing & finishing. Might have to try that. |
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| Author: | Dave White [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
DarrenFiggs wrote: I found out PRS calls it "London Soot" Ha! It's only genuine "London Soot" if it was collected by a Victorian child stuffed up a London chimney - I believe that it's CITES listed now 
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
Dave White wrote: It's only genuine "London Soot" if it was collected by a Victorian child stuffed up a London chimney - I believe that it's CITES listed now Doesn't the resident have to be burning a dalbergia of some sort in their fireplace in order for CITIES to apply?
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| Author: | Parser [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
I'm pretty sure I know what it is (as I've seen him do some finishes with a material that could be called "sooty")...but if Paul isn't telling you then I'm not gonna either (out of respect for him)  Never doubt that Paul is the best person in the world to market a guitar. I was blown away by his insight into marketing when I worked there and I still am. He knows what the customers value and how to deliver that value to them. Not all aspects of a product are tangible... Trev |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
How about a picture for reference? |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
Parser wrote: I'm pretty sure I know what it is (as I've seen him do some finishes with a material that could be called "sooty")...but if Paul isn't telling you then I'm not gonna either (out of respect for him) Never doubt that Paul is the best person in the world to market a guitar. I was blown away by his insight into marketing when I worked there and I still am. He knows what the customers value and how to deliver that value to them. Not all aspects of a product are tangible... Trev As I suspect the soot thing has FAR more to do with marketing than lutherie, he will probably get more respect on the marketing forums than here. |
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| Author: | James Ringelspaugh [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
Dave White wrote: DarrenFiggs wrote: I found out PRS calls it "London Soot" Ha! It's only genuine "London Soot" if it was collected by a Victorian child stuffed up a London chimney - I believe that it's CITES listed now It's rare to get a chuckle here. Thank you sir. |
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| Author: | Parser [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
CharlieT wrote: Parser wrote: I'm pretty sure I know what it is (as I've seen him do some finishes with a material that could be called "sooty")...but if Paul isn't telling you then I'm not gonna either (out of respect for him) Never doubt that Paul is the best person in the world to market a guitar. I was blown away by his insight into marketing when I worked there and I still am. He knows what the customers value and how to deliver that value to them. Not all aspects of a product are tangible... Trev As I suspect the soot thing has FAR more to do with marketing than lutherie, he will probably get more respect on the marketing forums than here. No offense but it's actually quite traditional. Just cuz he knows how to sell stuff, doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about... As an aside, one of the things that impressed me a lot is that every Christmas he dresses up like Santa and has the fire department ride him up to the factory where he gives presents to everyone's kids. He LOVES it...! Trev |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
CharlieT wrote: As I suspect the soot thing has FAR more to do with marketing than lutherie, he will probably get more respect on the marketing forums than here. I'm with Charlie. For a minute or 2 I thought about a "soot" finish by smoking a cigar while I was spraying the finish, but.......I thought of several reasons not to try it. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
Parser wrote: No offense but it's actually quite traditional. Just cuz he knows how to sell stuff, doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about... As an aside, one of the things that impressed me a lot is that every Christmas he dresses up like Santa and has the fire department ride him up to the factory where he gives presents to everyone's kids. He LOVES it...! Trev No offense taken, Trev...and none intended for my part. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
woody b wrote: For a minute or 2 I thought about a "soot" finish by smoking a cigar while I was spraying the finish, but.......I thought of several reasons not to try it. Hmmmm...a Havana soot finish? I wonder if the tone of the guitar would be more robust than that of a Dominican or Honduran soot finished one.
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
OK, I'll admit it does look pretty cool... |
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| Author: | Parser [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
Yep, they do OK...! (c: Trev |
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| Author: | turmite [ Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
I can replicate that finish in a short period of time....if I wanted to!  Actually I already have, but not on a guitar. I can lay out the process, but it is going to cost somebody something! Mike |
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| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
Looks to me to be a sprayed, waterbase, black dye...sanded back, followed by a black dye sunburst, followed by a UV cure sytem with a tinge of black in the topcoat. I have one finished I call "smoke" dye.....just a little black in the nitro topcoat. I don't do the dye and sandback or the sunburst, which creates the striking contrast...but the topcoat certainly looks like this. I did bunch of test panels practicing sandbacks. This included one where I burned a bunch of paper and rubbed the soot into the raw board. You know....it actually worked pretty well but the result was a fairly light gray color...not even close to black in the highlighted areas. Don't see any reason to use soot or ashes when dyes are onhand. At the time of this test I didn't have any black. After getting some black dye I found that northeastern figured maple, being harder, was a lot easier to achieve a good looking sandback with. I'll admit, however, that the test panels I had of western, big leaf maple were particularly soft and I don't believe they represented a typical, good piece of western maple. I'm still of the impression, after these tests, that the harder your figured lumber....the better the result of the sandback. I think hardness results in less dye penetration with the parallel figure which means that wood will sand back whiter...resulting in better contrast. ....a theory. Please debunk if I'm wrong. If anyone disputes this I would certainly appreciate a brief description of their process using fairly soft figured maple. I put this experimenting away unitl things settle down for me but I'm definitely going to want to get this wired down as I progress. |
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| Author: | turmite [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRS's Hand Rubbed Soot Finish. What is it? |
Stuart that dye and sand back and re dye is how I got my soot finish on rifle stocks and pistol grips. I did one set of highly figured blistered eastern hard maple and sanded it back. The contrast was stark, and looked like a snow leopard (sp) coat. I could have made a ton on money if I could have found a good supply of the wood. Too spotty on the supply side to advertize snow Leopard maple! ![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad") Have you attained perfection with the uv system? Mike |
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