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CA porefill
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=34869		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  CA porefill
Wondering how many of you do this. I thought I see a hairline crack on a back; even if it wasn't opening with inside pressure, just to make sure I flooded the area with thin CA then after a short while rubbed it off with a rag. After I sanded, all the pores seem to be wonderfully filled. Seems really simple and effective. I don't have a problem with using pumice even if it is tedious - although there is an exception: after extreme exposure to heat and perspiration, the fill can simply bloom and raise making bumps on the french polish. A quick 2000 sanding and buff fixes it but I don't like it. CA should be impervious to this, while I wouldn't get anywhere near epoxy.
Author:  Rod True [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
Yup, it's my current favorite method.
Author:  Ti-Roux [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
It fascinates me each time I hear that...
How do you apply the CA?
And you must need a LOT of CA... do you have gallons?
And isn't it really, REALLY volatile and toxic? It burns my eyes, even with glasses, just by opening a bottle.

I'm sure it works really great for porefilling, any doubt, but I wouldn't be safe to use it...
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
Gallons? No way. I think a not-too-tiny bottle like the "hot stuff" should be more than enough. It does burn the eyes and throat if sticking too close to a large spill, but what I envision is taking the guitar to the garage, quickly spilling the stuff over a reasonably large area and then running away until it gases off. Might be more difficult for the sides though. Best might be a fancy respirator thing.
Author:  Jim_H [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
I little definitely goes a long ways...

I'm wondering for those pore filling with CA, are you sealing first? If so with what?

And how does it work with stains?
Author:  Rod True [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
I seal first with shellac.

I also use my full face respirator. The fumes are nasty. My guess is exposure to CA is probably really no different than epoxy. My understanding with CA is that the fumes react to moisture which is why it stings the eyes so much....

A little bit does go a long way. I buy the 2oz bottle of medium Visc CA and I can do 2 full sessions on a guitar body with about 1/2 the bottle.

As for application, I use wax paper folded over several times to sort of wipe it around and mash the CA into the pores. The CA won't stick to the wax paper much at all so it works very well this way.
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
Use what's called non-fuming or foam safe CA and you won't have issues with fumes.
Author:  ChuckB [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
I have not been sealing prior to CA pore filling unless I am pore filling binding or purfling adjacent to the soundboard. Seems to work fine both ways. I use medium CA and spread with a bondo spreader. On the neck I use a nitrate glove and spread with my fingers. Porous woods take two applications, and very porous like white oak can take three.

Chuck
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
I love CA.

I do all rosewood back joints with CA.

I'd flood any joint or material (that wouldn't stain immediately) with CA if I thought it needed it,

CA is my friend !!
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
Alexandru Marian wrote:
Wondering how many of you do this. I thought I see a hairline crack on a back; even if it wasn't opening with inside pressure, just to make sure I flooded the area with thin CA then after a short while rubbed it off with a rag. After I sanded, all the pores seem to be wonderfully filled. Seems really simple and effective. I don't have a problem with using pumice even if it is tedious - although there is an exception: after extreme exposure to heat and perspiration, the fill can simply bloom and raise making bumps on the french polish. A quick 2000 sanding and buff fixes it but I don't like it. CA should be impervious to this, while I wouldn't get anywhere near epoxy.


Raise the grain, raise the grain, and raise the grain again before filling, no matter what kind of finish you'll be putting on. I had a guitar come back that looked and felt like it had goosebumps after its owner spent a summer in a swamp... moisture is going to get in no matter what you do.
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
From my research, CA is quite safe. We've had some arguments on here, and some people can develop a mild sensitivity to CA (cold like symptoms, nothing major). Regardless, I feel pretty confident that everyone agrees that it's orders of magnitude safer than epoxy. Look up epoxy reactions if you've any doubt.

CA is sort of like a spritz of lemon extract in the air...burns like hell when it touches you anywhere but the pain is the full extent of the damage. Epoxy doesn't smell too bad, kind of like some of the benzene compounds and other things that'll kill you :)

I know of two top tier big deal pro builders who pore fill with CA, and a couple amateurs as well, so it's safe to say that it's accepted at the highest level. In my experience CA can make a beautiful finish if applied evenly. It has a great feel, much less sticky than other finishes.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
CA's are not all equal. As an Asthma sufferer, I find Hot Stuff impossible to use. The fumes send me into asthmatic episodes that will last for several days. However, I have found that the Titebond CA does not do that. We won't even talk about the accelerator, that nearly sent me to the hospital. The problem was, I didn't even know I had been affected until the next day after exposure.
Author:  Jim_H [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
Waddy,

Have you tried the odorless/foam safe CA's? Several manufacturers offer it. It's a lot more expensive than the regular stuff, but it doesn't put off the harsh fumes when it cures.
Author:  Glen H [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
I've used it before (medium viscosity CA) applied with a razor blade or credit card. I loved all aspects of using it except for the eye irritation. It burned my eyes so bad, I had to quit using it. I tried the fans and goggles and just about everything, but just couldn't handle it.
Author:  CharlieT [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
Jim_H wrote:
Waddy,

Have you tried the odorless/foam safe CA's? Several manufacturers offer it. It's a lot more expensive than the regular stuff, but it doesn't put off the harsh fumes when it cures.


What does the "foam safe" in this context? Does it mean it can be used safely with Styro or other foams?
Author:  Jim_H [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
Yes, exactly!

Here is some info from the Bob Smith Adhesives site (there are other brands - I can get this at the local hobby shop, so that is what I use)

http://www.bsi-inc.com/Pages/hobby/oca.html

Bob Smith Industries wrote:
Odorless cyanoacrylates are formulated for use by those persons who have become sensitized or allergic to standard CA. Their use is recommended whenever sufficient ventilation is not possible. Odorless CAs have slightly less strength when compared to standard CA and are much more expensive. They can be used, however, on materials such as white foam that are otherwise dissolved or frosted by standard CA.


Here is a link to the 1oz bottle at Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Super-Gold-Odorle ... im_sbs_t_4
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
Thanks, I should try that.
Author:  Jim_H [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA porefill
I wouldn't use the stuff for anything critical. But for trim and possibly as a finish/sealer it might be fine.
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