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Peghead overlay idea
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=34825		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  MikeH [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Peghead overlay idea
So I have a ton of scrap pieces of vaneer (maple, cherry, ebony, etc) and I was thinking I could use them to do a "semi-decorative" overlay on a headstock. Problem is, naturally, the stuff is very thin (less than 1/32, I'd say), and rather delicate. So doing extremely detailed cuts might be tricky. But I think I could do a basic design that would look ok, without too many difficult cuts.

First issue I can think of is bringing all of the pieces together; I figure I'll need to mount them to something to ensure a nice tight fit before attaching the whole thing to the head stock. Any suggestions on what to use?

Any problems with this? I've never tried anything like this so, not sure how it will work out.
Author:  Mike Collins [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Peghead overlay idea
Mike;
I've done this many times.
Glue the pieces you want to use together first.
Use waxpaper on a stiff backing board(1/2"plywood)or a flat thick piece of a solid wood.
Cut the pieces you want to use longer & wider then you need.
This extra room will come in handy when gluing the veneers to the neck.

I use different headstock angles for steels & classical-etc.

You can glue the layed up veneers with them overhanging the nut area &then
cut them square to the neck with a nice sharp saw.

Or you can draw a center line & nut line & set a sander(disk) at the angle you need & just sand the nut side to the line.
With a square clamped to the neck at the nut - set the veneer right up to the square and glue that baby on!
Mark your center line on the square if you have a 2 piece bookmatched veneer.
So you can keep the veneer centered.

Mike
Author:  MikeH [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Peghead overlay idea
Thanks Mike! That is very helpful.
Author:  cphanna [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Peghead overlay idea
I've done it, too. it's what I usually do. Use your face veneer stacked on top of as many common, inexpensive veneers as you need to get your thickness. Press between two pieces of plywood or MDF (with wax paper) to dry. Then laminate to your headstock as you would any other headstock face plate.
One proviso: If you are using burl for the face surface, wet glue will wick up through it and impede your finishing stains, etc. Roll out your glue and let it thicken before applying that face veneer. Let a lot of the water come out of it. When it's real thick--sort of like petroleum jelly--apply that burl and clamp up quickly.
Author:  MikeH [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Peghead overlay idea
cphanna wrote:
One proviso: If you are using burl for the face surface, wet glue will wick up through it and impede your finishing stains, etc. Roll out your glue and let it thicken before applying that face veneer. Let a lot of the water come out of it. When it's real thick--sort of like petroleum jelly--apply that burl and clamp up quickly.


Hrmmmmm... yeah some of this veneer is definitely burly. Is there are way of sealing it on the backside before glueing?
Author:  Clay S. [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Peghead overlay idea
If you use epoxy to do the glue up and then use it again as a pore filler you don't have to worry about the bleed through on burls. The epoxy also "hardens" the wood some and fills gaps, which can be a plus for burls.
Author:  cphanna [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Peghead overlay idea
Yes, epoxy will work, too, as Clay says. I've read that veneer artists who hammer veneer with hot hide glue sometimes work the glue on top of their veneers as a pore sealer, too. I haven't done it, but I've read about it numerous times. Perhaps someone can advise you about that technique as well.
The yellow glue trick isn't difficult, and no sealer is required. I just roll it until it gets about as thick as molasses. Then I apply my top-most veneer. There's still plenty of "stick" left in it at that stage, and it isn't nearly as likely to wick up through the pores. Of course, use was paper, plywood cauls and clamps to glue the veneer down and let it set up overnight.
Author:  Dave Fifield [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Peghead overlay idea
All good advice! I'll add a little trick I use that might be useful too.

When gluing the overlay to the headstock, it's quite difficult to keep it aligned on the center line of the headstock and parallel to the nut slot (the glue makes everything very slippery!). To stop the overlay from slipping around, with the overlay taped or dry clamped in place, I drill two or three 1/8" holes through the overlay into the headstock in areas that I know I will be cutting off later (i.e. outside of the headstock shape). Then, when I glue the overlay in place, I use short pieces of 1/8" wooden dowel to hold the overlay in place without worrying about slippage at all.

Good luck, and don't forget to post pictures!

Cheers,
Dave F.
Author:  DennisK [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Peghead overlay idea
cphanna wrote:
Yes, epoxy will work, too, as Clay says. I've read that veneer artists who hammer veneer with hot hide glue sometimes work the glue on top of their veneers as a pore sealer, too. I haven't done it, but I've read about it numerous times. Perhaps someone can advise you about that technique as well.

Another nice thing about that technique is that the glue on the outside equalizes the moisture expansion. It can be pretty tough to get a veneer glued down when it's trying to peel its edges up, cupping away from the glue surface. Of course you can also just brush water on the outer surface for the same effect with less sticky :)
Author:  John Coloccia [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Peghead overlay idea
One thing I do re: veneer alignment

I tack glue a "perfect" nut to the neck before installing the veneer. By perfect, I mean I took an extra 2 seconds with my sanding board to make sure it's exactly the right thickness and dead flat and parallel. Then I use that to align the front of the veneer when gluing.

When gluing the fingerboard, I use the same nut to align and position the fingerboard.

My fingerboards are tapered before I glue them on, and then I trim the neck to match the fingerboard taper, so the original nut position can even be off by a few thousandths but it doesn't matter. The nut slot is dead on, the headstock alignment is dead on, and the rest of the neck is dead on. The truss rod might be off by a few thousandths is all.

Anyhow, that's just how I've been doing it because I'm generally rather klutzy with my glue ups so I needed to simplify the positioning somehow. :)
Author:  John Coloccia [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Peghead overlay idea
I should also mention that I cheat, BIG TIME. My headstock/veneer is all a bit longer than I need. I spread glue, align everything, and then glue the tip of my headstock down with superglue and accelerator before clamping. It makes a big mess that just gets cut away later.

I feel dirty doing it, and I'm ashamed to admit it, but that's what I do.
Author:  Mike Dotson [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Peghead overlay idea
I should also mention that I cheat, BIG TIME. My headstock/veneer is all a bit longer than I need. I spread glue, align everything, and then glue the tip of my headstock down with superglue and accelerator before clamping. It makes a big mess that just gets cut away later.

That's not cheating, that's the way we all do it. :mrgreen:
Author:  Mike Dotson [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Peghead overlay idea
I should also mention that I cheat, BIG TIME. My headstock/veneer is all a bit longer than I need. I spread glue, align everything, and then glue the tip of my headstock down with superglue and accelerator before clamping. It makes a big mess that just gets cut away later.

That's not cheating, that's the way we all do it. :mrgreen:
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