Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Alternate kerfing material

If a guy bent sides that were 5" wide and then took the material to a bandsaw and cut off excess in 1/4" strips , couldnt he " theoretically " use the pre-bent cut off stuff as kerfing ? even if he had to stack it ?

I cut down a set of sides using a guide on my bandsaw that way and the cutoff i got was clean and made me wonder about using it .

Prolly a dumb idea , but i never claimed to be smart laughing6-hehe

Actually thats not a bad idea but it wouldn't be very wide. I think the difference in radii would be minimal but I could be wrong since I never tried it.

jfmckenna wrote:

Actually thats not a bad idea but it wouldn't be very wide. I think the difference in radii would be minimal but I could be wrong since I never tried it.

I checked the radius of the pieces I cut and they flex enough that the prebent would conform with no problem .

I don't really know,
but I read somewhere once long ago,
that the kerfed linings don't matter much,
because that corner of the box is a dead zone,
as far as sound goes.
No, yes?

Author:	york [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:52 am ]
Post subject:	Alternate kerfing material
Is there any reason not to use shop scrap like walnut, cherry, etc., to make kerfing? I know the usuals like mahogany, spruce, and basswood have good characteristics for this like their relative strength to weight, etc. But are there good reasons beyond tradition not use some of these other materials readily available in the shop? (I understand that tradition is often based on years of valuable experience.)

Author:	ernie [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
Some woods bend easier than others e.g. willow, some are stronger per weight spruce, others are more attractive , mahogany, etc etc

Author:	york [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
Thanks for the replies. Yes, talking about kerfed linings. Just figured with a bunch of stuff of suitable size sitting around that isn't useful for a lot else, why not put it to good use.

Author:	John Arnold [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
I have probably experimented more with kerfing woods than any other aspect of guitar making. To date, I have used: Sassafras Butternut Willow Yellow-poplar Basswood Walnut Cherry Ash Holly Red spruce African mahogany Spanish cedar Besides density and hardness (which theoretically can affect the sound), the other properties that are relevant are ease of bending and ease of mortising for the bracing. In that regard, Spanish cedar is a winner, and sassafras makes a fine domestic substitute.

Author:	alan stassforth [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
I don't really know, but I read somewhere once long ago, that the kerfed linings don't matter much, because that corner of the box is a dead zone, as far as sound goes. No, yes?

Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Alternate kerfing material http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=34325	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Darryl Young [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Alternate kerfing material
Seems the design and wood selection (density and stiffness) used for the lining would have an affect on sustain.

Author:	Arnt Rian [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
I have used a variety of woods for kerfed and solid linings, and have not detected any tonal differences that I can attribute to the neither the material, nor the they type (solid vs. kerfed) that I used for this. That does not it mean there is no difference of course, but my feeling is that it must be quite minuscule. Its dimension on the other hand probably matters more, especially coupled with the extraordinarily rigid side constructions that some folks use these days, but within the range of sizes normally used on more traditional guitars, I find it hard to believe they are all that important. BTW, I don't consider any part of the guitar a "dead zone" acoustically, but some are certainly closer to that than others. One thing you might want to consider is how well the wood glues, if it dents easily (from your kerfing clamps) if it splits or breaks easily etc, those things also help explain why some of the traditional wood choices have become, well, traditional. My current favorite is local birch...

Author:	york [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
Those were my original thoughts, Todd. That's why I figured just about anything I would have in the shop should be a reasonable choice.

Author:	jfmckenna [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
I've used both walnut and Cherry as well as a few others including some traditional ones. I've used those materials as that was what the back and sides were and I think it gives it a nice clean look. I don't think I'd want to use rose wood though. IMO it don't matter what you use and it's good to get some use out of 'waste' material.

Author:	WudWerkr [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
If a guy bent sides that were 5" wide and then took the material to a bandsaw and cut off excess in 1/4" strips , couldnt he " theoretically " use the pre-bent cut off stuff as kerfing ? even if he had to stack it ? I cut down a set of sides using a guide on my bandsaw that way and the cutoff i got was clean and made me wonder about using it . Prolly a dumb idea , but i never claimed to be smart

Author:	Alex Kleon [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
WudWerkr wrote: If a guy bent sides that were 5" wide and then took the material to a bandsaw and cut off excess in 1/4" strips , couldnt he " theoretically " use the pre-bent cut off stuff as kerfing ? even if he had to stack it ? I cut down a set of sides using a guide on my bandsaw that way and the cutoff i got was clean and made me wonder about using it . Prolly a dumb idea , but i never claimed to be smart I think that the radius of the solid kerf has to conform to the inside radius of the sides, meaning that the outside radius of the kerfing must the same as the inside radius of the guitar sides. I think. Alex

Author:	jfmckenna [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
Actually thats not a bad idea but it wouldn't be very wide. I think the difference in radii would be minimal but I could be wrong since I never tried it.

Author:	Bryan Bear [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
Not a dumb idea Wud, many people laminate strips for linings. The only problem is that the bent strips will be too large to fit inside the side and inside the first layer of lining. . . If you use a hot pipe, you can do a quick touch up to fit them in though. I'd start at the waist since it should be a good fit then just tighten up the bouts from that point. If you have been using (not reversed) kerfed linings, you will be surprised at how stiff the rig gets; it is much easier to handle.

Author:	york [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
Quote: If a guy bent sides that were 5" wide and then took the material to a bandsaw and cut off excess in 1/4" strips , couldnt he " theoretically " use the pre-bent cut off stuff as kerfing ? even if he had to stack it ? Michael Collins describes something like that in his book on building a Selmer. He laminates layers of basswood veneer to the thickness he wants in the same mold used to laminate the sides. The laminate is about as wide as a side. Then he cuts the "side" into lining strips on the band saw and routs a roundover on one edge. So, guess it's not a dumb idea at all.

Page 1 of 1	All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	WudWerkr [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
jfmckenna wrote: Actually thats not a bad idea but it wouldn't be very wide. I think the difference in radii would be minimal but I could be wrong since I never tried it. I checked the radius of the pieces I cut and they flex enough that the prebent would conform with no problem .

Author:	Bryan Bear [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
WudWerkr wrote: jfmckenna wrote: Actually thats not a bad idea but it wouldn't be very wide. I think the difference in radii would be minimal but I could be wrong since I never tried it. I checked the radius of the pieces I cut and they flex enough that the prebent would conform with no problem . Then you should be good to go. You are using a mold with spreaders right? If not, I would worry that the the lining layers may slightly distort the side shape as the glue dries. I'm not sure though.

Author:	WudWerkr [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
All this having been said . " didnt mean to Hijack the thread " I dont see why scraps could be used as kerfing materials . Guess in my mind , the cost vs the effort is the deciding factor .

Author:	nyazzip [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
Quote: I don't really know, but I read somewhere once long ago, that the kerfed linings don't matter much, because that corner of the box is a dead zone, as far as sound goes. No, yes? this makes sense to me also....

Author:	york [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternate kerfing material
Not "hijacked", just expanded on nicely... Since I don't have to build for a living the time is not as much a factor. Really doesn't take much time to make linings -- I like reverse kerfing. I also like the idea of more fully using my materials and of making linings to match the wood of the instrument. It seems like the solid bent linings would work well on all but maybe some of the tighter curves on most instrument.