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| brazilian rosewood fingerboards? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=34280 |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Suppose a customer wants me to build them an electric guitar with a brazilian rosewood fingerboard, where can I get them? Due to CITES I have to get it in Taiwan but since no one here has it... would this be a good candidate for a fingerboard transplant if the guy has a guitar that already has brazilian rosewood fingerboard on it, assuming he insists on that wood... |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Rhetorical question? Try Madagascar Rosewood from LMI. Filippo I did suggest that, and he said "I know Madagascar Rosewood looks like Brazilian but I WANT Brazilian and if I were to get Madagascar rosewood then I might as well buy a Gibson" I can see why the other luthier didn't respond to his inquiry... he's really not being reasonable, |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Let him know you can not source Brazilian Rosewood for a fretboard, but if he wishes to provide a board for the guitar, he is most welcome. Filippo Yea, I told him if he has a guitar with brazilian that he doesn't want, I can transplant it... but then the scale would be determined by the fretboard. I said the only way to get it would be to find a guitar in Taiwan that already has brazilian, because no seller will ship brazilian rosewood outside of their country. |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
you can try your luck with this: http://www.octopus.com.tr/store/?page=p ... 36&cat=312 maybe they will ship to taiwan, maybe your customer will take the plunge... it´s a very light coloured example of BRW, but that can happen sometimes (acidic soil, less humidity, more sunlight than BRW grown near the ocean will yield a paler timber). cheers, miguel. |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
that really looks like pao ferro. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Alexandru Marian wrote: that really looks like pao ferro. It could very well be... I mean how would you know, especially if you have never seen Brazilian Rosewood before? |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Hi Tai Fu, What are the import laws regarding Brazilian rosewood in Taiwan? If it not legal to import it and you can not source it in country, then I would let the customer supply it. I would also be inclined to get a hefty deposit on the commission. Brazilian rosewood is one of the most variable in color and grain that I have worked with. The wood in the picture above could very well be Dalbergia Nigra, but then again there are a lot of people calling a lot of different species "Brazilian Rosewood" these days. (those do look a lot like Pau ferro.) |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Tai Fu wrote: Alexandru Marian wrote: that really looks like pao ferro. It could very well be... I mean how would you know, especially if you have never seen Brazilian Rosewood before? After you have it there, it would be rather simple: morado (pau-ferro / caviuna / santos RW / bolivian RW - all different names for the same stuff, i.e., Machaerium schleroxylon) does not have the rosewood smell (not much smell at all in my samples) and has really a fine texture, while braz RW is a diffuse porous wood with medium to medium/coarse texture. Looks-wise Brazilian tends have that crazy spider-webbing many of us lust for and darker colour, but - as i said before - its colour palette is broad and varies widely with sun and moisture exposure and soil pH. The stuff that was exported out of brazil and suited european tastes (from the XVI century onwards) was the more figured, orange/purple tinged with dark veins stuff that grew in the "mata atlantica" forest, near the ocean, specially from bahia to southern rio state, where high humidity, low pH and dense, high canopy forests favoured slower growth and the production of extractives that produced the rio-type brazilian rosewood. More to the interior (near the "sertao") the lighter, paler type tends to be dominant. I don´t know if it´s endemic or planted, though. Cheers, Miguel P.S. -crappy picture of bolivian RW follows |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
 First thing that hits you when handling real Brazilian is the smell. It smells nicer and stronger than any other rosewood, and you don't even have to scrape it. When I use it for bridges and play the guitar in the white I can sometimes pick up the smell when playing. Other species that pack such a nose punch are Spanish cypress, cedrella and lignum vitae. I am only talking dry and somewhat oxidized wood here. Handling wet fresh Madagascar rosewood for example is simply mind blowing. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Alexandru Marian wrote: First thing that hits you when handling real Brazilian is the smell. It smells nicer and stronger than any other rosewood, and you don't even have to scrape it. When I use it for bridges and play the guitar in the white I can sometimes pick up the smell when playing. Other species that pack such a nose punch are Spanish cypress, cedrella and lignum vitae. I am only talking dry and somewhat oxidized wood here. Handling wet fresh Madagascar rosewood for example is simply mind blowing. I really wish I could get a sample so I'd know the difference... I don't know the Taiwanese import law but as they're not UN they really aren't under any obligation to follow international laws, but they do their best to follow them to build a "better international reputation". That being said I just don't know where I could source some D. Nigra outside of the USA (actually, I don't even know where I can source pretty much anything luthier related outside of the USA) and I am pretty sure anyone selling D. Nigra in the EU, Australia or NZ is pretty much not going to ship it out of their country because I am sure those countries have tough regulations against exporting CITES species. |
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| Author: | Lars Stahl [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Perhaps "some" vendor or "someone" else could send you some "cocobolo"  . I don't have any in the shop myself right now for fretboard, but if I did I would send you some "cocobolo"  Perhaps I have been watching to many cowboys movies when I was younger as I though Americans was a brave bunch of people who did not let government rule over the individuals. times are changing as Bob Dylan sings... ....    First shot on me......  Lars |
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| Author: | Herr Dalbergia [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
- it is widley known that Octopuss is selling Santos as BRW, which is not a mistake at all...Brazilian Rosewood is just a name, you can sell American Red Oak and call it Brazilian Rosewood. The point of no return starts when you (have to) label the real scientifc, botanical name, for example for a CITES permisson or Lacey Act. As soon as you use these two words in combination, you should really know what you are doing: Dalbergia Nigra. Yes, you are right, Octo is also saying, Dalbergia Nigra, but that is not my problem. - The Octopuss BRW is Santos, I have seen it and smelled it. I resawed it, scraped it, plained it. My comparison knowledge comes from a few hundred BRW sets I have worked with. - The Cites works worldwide, in every country. And it works for both. The seller has to have a permisson to sell and export from his government. The buyer has to have the permisson from his government to import and to buy, and perhaps to resell (...). - ther are a few very reliable seller of BRW, with the correct CITES paperwork, not much but enough. It is complicated, expensive, takes lot of time, but it works. And of course, when you are planing to do this step, the first would be to go to your government and say: Hey, I would like to import, work and sell Dalbergia Nigra...ever tried this? best regards, alex |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Hmmm .. well I think those pix are pau ferro as well .. I have seen my share of BRW, and none of it ever looked like that. |
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| Author: | James W B [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Try Madeira or Hanover brazil. |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
I think the closest looking wood to brw is, eir. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Alan have you actually looked at any EIR harvested in the last many years. It may look like any number of things but Brazilian Rosewood does not come to mind! Filippo Total +1 on that... |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Quote: I think the closest looking wood to brw is, eir. Ever seen any Amazon Rosewood? |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Herr Dalbergia wrote: - it is widley known that Octopuss is selling Santos as BRW f&ck me! that´s just dishonest,no matter how one flips the coin.Herr Dalbergia wrote: James W B wrote: Try Madeira or Hanover brazil. cheers, miguel. |
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| Author: | CWLiu [ Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Quote: Due to CITES I have to get it in Taiwan but since no one here has it... Not true. Allied lutherie ships BRW to Taiwan while they still had it. That was before 2005, IIRC. I just managed to get 18 B&S sets and some bridge blanks from Allied but I didn't order any fbs. I'm certainly not the only one who has BRW, btw. |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Here's an eir bridge blank, on top of what I'm fairly certain is brw. The brw has tung oil on it. The eir doesn't have the sharp contrasting black grain. Anyboby think this is braz? Pics are bass-ackwards. |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Yeah filippo. I bought 2 of that type of eir, (the junk), roughed out a bridge, and didn't feel good about it. So, I went to Allied, and found the good stuff. I also got some nice eir bindings from him. I think he's got a nice stash of it. Real nice to actually go in there and look around. |
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| Author: | kominak [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Herr Dalbergia wrote: - it is widley known that Octopuss is selling Santos as BRW Hm, I'm not very experienced and I can only compare it to EIR, but I bought headplatte and bridge blank from Octopuss and the smell was MUCH stronger and sweeter than EIR. Also, the tap tone was more "glassy gong" compared to "metallic" EIR - hard to describe in words. But maybe santos rosewood feels similar, I don't know. Here's headplatte finished with light blonde shellac: 
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Santos rosewood has very small pores. |
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| Author: | kominak [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
it's Santos then - pores were rather small. But the intensive smell is confusing... |
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| Author: | Billy T [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: brazilian rosewood fingerboards? |
Lars Stahl wrote: Perhaps I have been watching to many cowboys movies when I was younger as I though Americans was a brave bunch of people who did not let government rule over the individuals. times are changing as Bob Dylan sings... .... First shot on me...... Lars Huhm! Stockholm....Sweden! Isn't it the law in Sweden you guys have to pee sitting down? Piss like a man... go to jail... IT'S THE LAW!!
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