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Duelling Bandsaws
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=34071		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  ernie [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Duelling Bandsaws
After a trip to the grocery store, and reading a bandsaw review in FW. I have second thoughts about buying a rikon 18in bandsaw strictly for resawing.The article rated the laguna 14 in with ceramic guides good fence and brake a buyer favorite, and the new griz 19in best overalll with tall fence 3hp etc a best buy. I would also seriously consider the laguna 16in , as I have abt 1000 bd ft of walnut. osage. locust, mulberry,etc to resaw this winter. In your opinion. I would love to hear from those who own either a laguna14/16in or those who own the griz 19in , and why you bought one thanks.
Author:  Chris aka Sniggly [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
Ohhhhh Ernie. I'm afraid I can do nothing here but throw a monkey wrench in your clock. I guess I should tell you I haven't read that comparison so I don't know what they say about the Rikon. I hold Fine Woodworking in high regard. Love that magazine, but, there are some details here that mustn't be overlooked. First; the Rikon 18" saw is more than capable of resawing any of the wood species you mention plus any other number of exotics you can or can't pronounce. Several members of this board have one, including me, and have had good results with them. I've personally sawn a couple hundred back and side sets with mine and it still runs like a clock. Second, and probably important, is that you can buy the Rikon 18" for $1049.00 right now from Woodcraft. Good through the end of November.

I like the saw because I've not had to make any major tweaks to get it to perform as advertised. Put your Woodmaster CT on and saw away. I think it's good you ask your question because a magazine article in and of itself doesn't provide enough justification to go out and buy right away. Some people will take articles like that as defacto evidence but they shouldn't.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
Where's the Rikon made? I'm very seriously considering a new bandsaw as well.
That $1049.00 sounds like a good deal, though I have to drive to woodcraft to get it, I doubt they ship for free.
Author:  bobgramann [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
I have the Rikon 18" saw. For the most part, it is wonderful. It resaws well with the Woodmaster carbide blade except for Osage Orange. The blade grabs in the Osage Orange, the frame flexes, and the board jumps. With the Lenox Trimaster blade, it can resaw Osage Orange, although I have had the Trimaster blade grab in that. It was explained to me that to cut a very hard wood, the teeth need a steep rake angle and that the Rikon frame is not quite stiff enough to transfer enough power when the cutting gets tough. Other than that, there only three things that I dislike about the saw: it has no blade brake, the blade guides do not have fine adjusters, and the supplied fence does not have a fine adjuster. I bought mine at Woodcraft. They put it in the truck for me. I hired a wrecker to hoist it out of the truck and down the stairwell to my shop. It is a good value for the money. I don't know if the Laguna or the Grizzly do the job better.
Author:  ernie [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
After I posted the topic. I found a youtube vid extolling the virtues of the laguna 16hd. After reading several complaints abt laguna. I got the impression that they are a miss and hit co.Some have had good experiences with the BS , but not their customer service, plus gripes abt the resaw king bs blade . I have the bogdanovich dvd on classical gtr making, in it he resaws EIR with no problems on a laguna 16 hd.. I do have a fair amt of osage to resaw, buying a rikon , may or may not work for me, especially with the comments abt the trimaster blade.There is a griz showroom,here in springfield mo abt 165 mi away and a woodcraft 25 mi away. Keep those comments and opinions going . Love to hear them.
Author:  truckjohn [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
Remember also that there are a whole host of Laguna and Grizzly models.... It's not fair to say that the 14 or 16 will be great because their larger saws are very well made... Some models are very well made - others may not be...

A 14" saw still has 14" wheels - which greatly limit the size and type blades you can run... There aren't many choices of Carbide blades in this size range - and they probably don't have nearly the band life across multiple sharpenings because of the tighter radius of the wheels.... The wider blades really help with blade tracking through the longer resaw cuts... They also allow you to run more aggressive resaw blades with fewer teeth per inch...

If you really plan to do resawing - then it would be best to start planning on starting with a platform designed for resaw from the start.... That means larger horsepower, stiffer frame, larger wheels, ability to run wider blades... but it also includes a whole host of things like being able to mount well designed fences, better blade guides, better chip and sawdust control, etc...
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
I have a 19 in grizzly with the ceramic guides for resawing and like it . I do use it hard and find it a functional tool . I also have a 16 walker turner for most other band saw duties .
Author:  Don Williams [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
Laguna LT16HD, made in Italy, 5 hp Baldor motor. You can't stall it, or at least I haven't. It has a 16" height resaw capacity, not just the width, and I've sliced through 12" BRW planks like butter. But you're going to pay dearly for one of these...

The things you need to look more carefully at are blade speed and HP. These are often overlooked. Don't discount the MiniMax saws either. They're terrific.
Author:  Goodin [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
theguitarwhisperer wrote:
Where's the Rikon made? I'm very seriously considering a new bandsaw as well.
That $1049.00 sounds like a good deal, though I have to drive to woodcraft to get it, I doubt they ship for free.


The Rikon bandsaw is made in Taiwan. At least that's where my 14" Rikon says it was made. I remember someone saying that the best power tools are coming out of Taiwan nowadays. I like mine ok but the guides are a bit of a pain to set up and the cabinet base is flimsy.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
Goodin wrote:
theguitarwhisperer wrote:
Where's the Rikon made? I'm very seriously considering a new bandsaw as well.
That $1049.00 sounds like a good deal, though I have to drive to woodcraft to get it, I doubt they ship for free.


The Rikon bandsaw is made in Taiwan. At least that's where my 14" Rikon says it was made. I remember someone saying that the best power tools are coming out of Taiwan nowadays. I like mine ok but the guides are a bit of a pain to set up and the cabinet base is flimsy.


The trouble with actually being in Taiwan is a LOT of factories here are strictly OEM, which means they only export and do not sell locally. I think there may be a move away from doing OEM in Taiwan due to the instability of the economy in both Europe and the USA, but that could take a while. It's probably a good move anyways because whenever the economy in the west tanks, bosses in Taiwan starts doing all sorts of cutbacks like unpaid leave, etc. but when the economy is good, they make employees work additional hours with no additional pay.

Which is why I have so much trouble actually getting a decent bandsaw. Rexons are pretty good, I suspect they make most of what Grizzly sells because I've seen a drill press sold at Grizzly that looks almost exactly like my new Rexon 15" drill press. Thing is, drill presses are fairly common as they're used in mechanic shop but band saws are used only by carpenters, so they aren't as widely sold.

By the way I have been wondering about the need for the ability to resaw... from what I can see, if I got a commission I would want to use a set from LMI or other luthier supplier because they do provide good quality wood, and buying an expensive saw (along with accessories like guides, etc. which makes resaw more efficient) just so I can use cheap wood from lumberyards seems kinda pointless, unless I want to start a LMI like company. I was going to buy an 18" bandsaw but seeing its price and my limited fund, I went for a 9" instead, and got a jig saw for anything too big for the 9" throat...
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
So what's the idea behind the brake? I don't think I've ever needed one. Of course I've only used my 14 inch jet, or smaller.
Author:  Chris aka Sniggly [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
For me...the spin down time of the saw isn't that much of an issue. BUT..I'm the only one working in my shop. If other people are in shop it's a much bigger issue. As to the adjustability of the guides I don't find them a bother. I can do a full blown blade change in setup in relatively quick time. Relative to any other 14" saw I've ever owned, which spanned 3 brands.

Bottom line still remains - it's a lot of saw for the money.

BTW - A 3L link belt on this saw is sweeeeet.
BBTW - Filippo sends his bandsaw a hallmark card every chance he gets! laughing6-hehe
Author:  Darrin D Oilar [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
I have a Grizzly 19 inch saw. Not the one with the brake however, and as stated, it does continue to spin down for about 45 seconds after shut off. A lot of inertia.

It's a 3 hp saw and has worked very well for me. Most of the adjustments for the guides are pretty straight forward. The upper thrust bearing doesn't have the greatest access however and getting a 1" blade on it can get tricky re: working it through the table, around the guide bearing and by the doors. The blade size is kind of an oddball at 143". However, you can order them at whatever length you want at most blade suppliers. I've not done a lot of resawing, just a few sets of walnut and sapele, but it handled them with ease.

They shipped it to a local Fed Ex place and we went down and picked it up. This particular place put it in the back of the truck for us, and getting it out was not that big of an issue with two guys.

I don't have experience with any of the other saws that you're interested in. My only other bandsaw was a 14" Jet.

Darrin
Author:  mcgr40 [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
That 18 inch rikon does look like a great buy at 1049. I hate it that there is so much useful information on this forum, This thread will cost me over 1200 with shipping and tax. Must resist looking at that saw again.
Author:  ernie [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
Update . Called the local woodcraft , the mgr says the rikon is in the back and he has no plans to put one on display. We wonder why our economy is falling behind. If I were the mgr , the rikon would be proudly displayed , and during the sale period , would try to sell as many as possible.
Author:  Jim_H [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
Things like inventory (supply), dealer incentives, and mark up/profit determine what gets put on display at retail stores.
Author:  Bobc [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
bobgramann wrote:
I have the Rikon 18" saw. For the most part, it is wonderful. It resaws well with the Woodmaster carbide blade except for Osage Orange. The blade grabs in the Osage Orange, the frame flexes, and the board jumps. With the Lenox Trimaster blade, it can resaw Osage Orange, although I have had the Trimaster blade grab in that. It was explained to me that to cut a very hard wood, the teeth need a steep rake angle and that the Rikon frame is not quite stiff enough to transfer enough power when the cutting gets tough. Other than that, there only three things that I dislike about the saw: it has no blade brake, the blade guides do not have fine adjusters, and the supplied fence does not have a fine adjuster. I bought mine at Woodcraft. They put it in the truck for me. I hired a wrecker to hoist it out of the truck and down the stairwell to my shop. It is a good value for the money. I don't know if the Laguna or the Grizzly do the job better.


Bob I have experienced the same jumping with my Laguna 16HD Plenty of power so I'm not sure that's the answer. Same thing happens with purpleheart and flamewood and with both of the blades you have used. Recently I tried a Lenox re-saw bi-metal blade and it works very good.

@ Ernie
That 18" Rikon should do the job for you.
Author:  bobgramann [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
I used bimetal blades in my old 14" before I got the 18" Rikon. They worked great for about 4 feet of cut. Then, they needed to be resharpened. After 3 resharpenings, the expensive blades had to be replaced. That's why I upgraded to the 18" saw that was powerful enough to use carbide blades. But, thank you for telling me that it happens on your saw. I won't regret not buying a more expensive saw anymore.
Author:  ernie [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
Jim I see your pt having run a retail operation myself. My problem, is that I would like to scrutinize the saw thorughly before I plunk down abt 1300$ plus a carbide blade before I schlep the bs home in a friends truck gaah
Author:  ernie [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Duelling Bandsaws
Mgr at woodcraft will finally showcase the rikon 18 in next week bliss
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