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low price initial commission?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=34061		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  low price initial commission?
Suppose someone who knows a lot of people, a musician comes to me with limited budget (I am not speaking as someone who has been in the trade for over 20 years and have lots of connections and experience), but wants a guitar from me. So say I agree to build him or her a guitar for 2/3 (or even half) of the price that I'd normally ask of other customers, but in return he/she would get me a lot more customers...

Is it worth it?
Author:  woody b [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
Quote:
Is it worth it?


Not for me. I've let a few local musicians play one of my guitars for a few weeks, but I wouldn't build one for less. I feel that my guitars are worth what I charge, and speak for themselves. For that reason I won't discount them.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
Been there, done that, NEVER DOING IT AGAIN!

Trust me, it's BS. Charge full pop, or they can go suck eggs.

Here's what I ended up asking clients who wanted to pay less:
"How bad do you want to feel good?"

Jesse James nailed it when he had "Pay Up, Sucker" tattooed on the palm of his hand.
Author:  Rod True [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
Charge full price with the agreement that if he brings in other commissions, you will pay him say $100 (or something) per commission through him, a finders fee if you will...
Author:  David Newton [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
I think you should do what you want, and don't tell anyone what you've done.
Keep your business dealings to yourself.
If you give a guitar away, it is no ones business but your own. Same with getting a big $$ sale.

There is nothing like having your guitar played in front of people, who will come to you and say "I want a guitar like his"

If you sell, or give away, a guitar to a musician who is playing out on tour, PICK A GREAT MUSICIAN, that is MY advice.
Author:  truckjohn [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
The other side of it is this.... It's a huge gamble to them and a big opportunity to you.... This is why the price from new builders necessarily is low....

One is from your perspective....
Selling will help get you some more money to build other instruments and hone your skills...
Selling will help you thin the herd too....
It also helps you get stuff out there to start building a reputation

From THEIR perspective, it's a huge gamble
There's a whole lot of risk for a player when commissioning a build from someone very early in their "Career"..... Most builders "Careers" are pretty short lived... Many have a hard time making ends meet and end up back in a "Day Job"... Many quit altogether... Some end up taking the "Getting started money" and then life gets in the way and they never get around to finishing the job.... Then, there's the Warranty/Quality aspect... You may have made some mistake in the build that will result in trouble a few years down the road.... You may not have mastered some aspect of the setup/build or may not be able to repair a problem that comes up either....

I would say figure out how to set the price and payment terms accordingly....

Anyway.. that's 1 perspective...
Author:  Pat Foster [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
Notwithstanding price, there's also the issue of having early work out there in public. If it's not up to snuff, nobody will say to themselves, "maybe it's an early one of his and now they're better." Every bit of work you put out there says, "this is my best work."

Part of the problem is that we can improve our work only to the extent that we can perceive its shortcomings.
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
Pat Foster wrote:
Part of the problem is that we can improve our work only to the extent that we can perceive its shortcomings.


I'd say discernment (perception) in concert with a stubborn resolve to address perceived shortcomings fully defines craftsmanship. It's in that spirit that I build guitars, attempting to achieve a respectable result before I attempt to sell them...and then command a respectable price...following my father's wisdom...."Son, don't sell yourself short." He was always pretty concise.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
Your musician gets a guitar for a substantial discount, his referrals will be expecting the same price. You could ask him to tell a different price, but you end up starting your business based on lies. Figure a fair price, and stick to it.

Alex
Author:  Michael.N. [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
I guess that it is very tempting, the thought that one single Player will bring you untold riches. It happens but it's rare.
You have to be the ultimate judge but personally I think that Luthier made Guitars are cheap enough. Next time you visit your Dentist or Lawyer ask him/her for a substantial discount. Promise them that you will spread the word.
Let us know the outcome.
Author:  jackwilliams [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
Is it worth it?

No.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
I remember reading about some luthier who arranged to bring one of his guitars to Eddie Van Halen after a concert. Keep in mind, many big companies give guitars to stars by the truckload. Van Halen played the guitar, and complimented the builder, then said "thanks for the guitar". The builder then said, "Oh, no - if you like it, it's this much money". Eddie paid up.
Author:  DennisK [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
Lots of considerations, but bottom line is you can do whatever you like.

Personally, I'd prefer to stick to 4 destinations for guitars... keepers, gifts, build whatever I want and put it up for sale, and full price commissions. But I'd really rather not do commissions too often, because deadlines stress me out, and I come up with ideas for instruments faster than I can build them already.

I definitely wouldn't give discounts just for hopes of advertising... I'd rather they be fully honest and free in their representation of me, than to feel obligated to hype me up. But I might discount if I really liked the musician and wanted to get a guitar in their hands for the sake of the music (although more likely I'd just gift them one at that point). Also, the fact that this person doesn't have a whole herd of really nice guitars means that yours should get a lot of play time :) No greater honor to a guitar than to be played, I say.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
I'm in the "not a good idea camp". If he's short on funds most of the musicians he hangs out with probably are too. I've made that mistake. Another huge mistake is to let a customer have an instrument with the promise that they will pay for it over a period of time. I've made that one too. Best to get your money up front and establish your reputation over time by letting your instruments and your relationship with your customers speak for themselves.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
Here's the deal:

I think I'll tell the person that I will only build at my asking price, but I would take a deposit, and for every successful commission he brings me I will deduct $100 dollars off of the amount he would have to pay when he gets his guitar...

that way he works to pay for his instrument, and I won't end up setting a reputation for being a cheap instrument maker.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
Good call.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: low price initial commission?
Seems the general consensus is a resounding NO! But for me it worked. The first guitars I sold were to friends who were interested in my hobby and wanted to own a guitar from some one they know who builds them. Not to mention they may get a very nice guitar for next to nothing. This was my excuse to buy more materials and learn from experience. The first guitar I ever sold was to a guy in town who plays professionally and has hundreds of students come through his shop. I gave him a significant discount and I'd say that in the 5 or 6 years that followed that sale he generated about 5 more build for me and in fact bought one for himself at full price (electric). But you have to watch out I guess, this guy was good. IF he had a student that he felt would be interested then he'd push it like a sales man :)
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