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Setting up a table saw fence
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=34040		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Goodin [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Setting up a table saw fence
So I rebuilt the arbor assembly on my 1960 Delta/Rockwell Unisaw and I have it installed and the top put back on. I am using John White's "Care and Repair of Shop Machines" as a guide. I have the miter slots aligned to the blade (actually a wooden setting guide in place of the blade) and now I am lining up the rip fence. It's an aftermarket Vega fence. When I tighten down the fence by pushing down the lever, my gauge shows the fence moving in towards the blade about .005" to .010". It moves in farther the harder I clamp down the fence. Is this normal? Acceptable? Should I just account for this variance when I zero the fence to the blade, which will be done after the fence is clamped down? I bought the saw and Vega fence used from a professional cabinet maker. it's my first cabinet saw and this is the first time I have rebuilt and properly set up a table saw. I appreciate any advice!
Author:  segovia [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
My Scheppach did the same

The fix was to loosen the fence assuming it is in two pieces and then re tighten when it is hard up against the blade -

Does that make sense ?

John
Author:  Jim Watts [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
This is not good, you want the far end of the fence moving away from the blade by a schoosh, not towards it. If it angles towards the blade you are closing the kerf and have set up a situation for a kick back.
Author:  Goodin [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
segovia wrote:
My Scheppach did the same

The fix was to loosen the fence assuming it is in two pieces and then re tighten when it is hard up against the blade -

Does that make sense ?

John


I'm not sure I follow, can you please elaborate?
Author:  segovia [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
Image of the fix for my table saw attached
Author:  Mark Fogleman [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
Use the locked fence to make adjustments.

You may need to resurface the locking cam and/or smooth the rails if it has been used alot. You can reverse the locking cam mechinism too. Pull the pin out of it's cylinder and remove, turn the cam around and replace it. This will make the locking lever motion up instead of down. Moves the rear of the fence down toward the table instead of up in the air which can create a moving target and make the changes you're seeing.
Author:  murrmac [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
Let's face it, the table saw is a central part of any workshop set-up, and the fence is the heart of that set-up.

At the end of the day, there is no satisfactory alternative to having an Incra fence.

Mega dollars, admittedly, but well worth every penny.

Probably the best investment it is possible to make in terms of machine upgrades.
Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
Wow, all these years......... I thought I was really out of it until I realized that "at the end of the day" I am through with work so I don't need a Incra fence. Heck , I don't even need a table saw. At the beginning of the day and up until the "end of the day" I do pretty well with a Beismeyer clone. :twisted: 50" + to right of blade, almost instant change to left of blade, locks up square every time, Takes a hard bump and stays put. Micro adjust, (my fist) and acurate scale, (my tape).
I do admit it would be nice to have a real micro adjust.
I think the biggest upgrade to a table saw is a good crosscut sled. Cheap too.
L.
Author:  klooker [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
I'm not familiar with the Vega. I'm used to the Unifence & the Beismeyer.

On those fences, the tightening mechanism is a lever that moves a cam. When you tighten them, you push the lever until it hits the stop. As you push the lever the fence will move but it always goes to the same place once you hit the stop.

Is the Vega not like this?

Kevin Looker
Author:  Mike_P [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
this sounds like a fence on a Jet table saw...on Jet's one has to add teflon shims on either side of the T which slides on the rails to make it align properly with the blade...unlike others here I prefer to have the far side of the fence .001 to .002 closer to the blade as I find this kind of burnishes the edge of the board and many times allows to skip the process of sanding an edge to remove kerf marks when in the field (I don't have a jointer on jobsites)...the negative side is that oily woods will tend get their edge burned and that of course necessitates adjustment of the fence to be farther away from the blade on the far side...
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
If the fence is anything less than parallel at the back of the blade you run the risk of kick back. I'm not familiar with the Vega fence, but spend as much time as it takes to get it adjusted properly.

Alex
Author:  alan stassforth [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
adjust the fence,
do a test cut,
measure, and adjust as necessary.
note the problems, and set up the fence accordingly.
or, buy an accurate fence.
Author:  Goodin [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
Thanks for the replies everyone.

Mike_P where can I get teflon shims?

klooker - yes the Vega fence works that way. The fence always lands in the exact same place to the .001". I thought of just adjusting it out but the far end always comes in .005-.010" closer to the blade so it won't eliminate the problem. Ideally I would like the fence to not move or move just slightly out when I clamp it.

I checked everything out and it all looks good. I think maybe the fence never was able to line up properly. Based on the measurements it looks like the guy who had the saw before me adjusted the fence to compensate for the movement. I am thinking of first, trying the teflon shims, then reversing the cam if that doesn't work, or filing down the brass locking plate to an angle to compensate. Any more thoughts?
Author:  Clay S. [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
The shims don't have to be teflon (ultra high molecular weight plastic?) . Any reasonably hard semi slippery material should work. Corian, lignam vitae, soft brass, or plexiglas could work.
Author:  John A [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
As mentioned various times above, but in different ways - why not adjust the fence orientation while the cam level is in the lock position and the fence bolts are loose enough to allow adjustment ? Then tighten down the bolts that maintain the fence orientation.
Author:  Goodin [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
John A wrote:
As mentioned various times above, but in different ways - why not adjust the fence orientation while the cam level is in the lock position and the fence bolts are loose enough to allow adjustment ? Then tighten down the bolts that maintain the fence orientation.


Yeah, I got that. The adjustment of the fence will not solve the problem of the fence moving when the cam is locked in place. No matter how close the fence is adjusted to the blade it will still have that play as the cam is being locked. The issue is with the cam, T, slider, brass locking plate...
Author:  Goodin [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
So I did some more investigating and experimenting. I think the fence system has been used so much that the cam, and/or T are worn causing the fence to shift when locked. Also the brass locking plate is loose and leaning over on one side, so I tightened the screw, and put a scrap piece of Coco shim under it to hold it in tight (the locking plate appeared in good shape and not worn on one side or the other). This helped some. Next, since I don't have any metal tape, or teflon tape or whatever, as at test I used a piece of electrical tape and fit it on the table side of the T, adjusting the positing of the tape until there was no more play in the fence. By moving the tape in various places I was able to get the fence to not move any more than .001" when the cam is locked. So this seems to be a good fix. See pic....
Attachment:
IMG_3097 (Large).JPG
Author:  Mike_P [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
glad to hear you got the idea of shimmage to adjust the locked position of the fence...as far as to where you get them, to be hones I haven't a clue...I only know about it because the company I work for has 3 or 4 Jet saws and that is how they were adjusted (they had PSA adhesive (or some such)on the back to make them stick to the T)...as to if they were supplied by Jet or some solution that another came up with I don't know...

since you mention having used electrical tape I'm betting that fix won't last too long...I would think that some sort of shim made out of a longer lasting material (UHMW plastic as is used for the wells karol rosette jig perhaps?) and super glued in place would be a longer lasting solution
Author:  Goodin [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
Mike_P wrote:
glad to hear you got the idea of shimmage to adjust the locked position of the fence...as far as to where you get them, to be hones I haven't a clue...I only know about it because the company I work for has 3 or 4 Jet saws and that is how they were adjusted (they had PSA adhesive (or some such)on the back to make them stick to the T)...as to if they were supplied by Jet or some solution that another came up with I don't know...

since you mention having used electrical tape I'm betting that fix won't last too long...I would think that some sort of shim made out of a longer lasting material (UHMW plastic as is used for the wells karol rosette jig perhaps?) and super glued in place would be a longer lasting solution


The electrical tape was just a temporary experiment to see how shimming would work. I got some heavy duty packaging tape made of a thick slippery plastic which I will replace the electrical tape with. I also have some aluminum tape I will try out if the packaging tape doesn't hold up, but I don't think it will slide as easy.
Author:  Jeffrey L. Suits [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
I used to have a tablesaw with a Vega fence, and recall four large machine screws that held the fence to the carriage.
I locked up the carriage, and set the fence arm to a bazillionth of runout away from the blade.

That saw, with that fence was an absolute joy to use, and is still being used by the cabinetbuilder (for the boutique amp industry), whom I sold it to.
Author:  Goodin [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
Jeffrey L. Suits wrote:
I used to have a tablesaw with a Vega fence, and recall four large machine screws that held the fence to the carriage.
I locked up the carriage, and set the fence arm to a bazillionth of runout away from the blade.

That saw, with that fence was an absolute joy to use, and is still being used by the cabinetbuilder (for the boutique amp industry), whom I sold it to.


You are correct about the four large machine screws. Now that I have it shimmed where the fence wont move as it's being locked down, i will set the fence to the blade by adjusting these bolts.
Author:  Mark Fogleman [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
You may want to consider salvaging a cheap feeler gauge and using the .001-.005 blades or buying this assortment of Shim Stock from Lee Valley http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=40946&cat=1,43456,43407
Attach w/ 3M #90 Hi Strength Contact Adhesive spray.
Author:  Goodin [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
Tarhead wrote:
You may want to consider salvaging a cheap feeler gauge and using the .001-.005 blades or buying this assortment of Shim Stock from Lee Valley http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=40946&cat=1,43456,43407
Attach w/ 3M #90 Hi Strength Contact Adhesive spray.
Tarhead wrote:
You may want to consider salvaging a cheap feeler gauge and using the .001-.005 blades or buying this assortment of Shim Stock from Lee Valley http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=40946&cat=1,43456,43407
Attach w/ 3M #90 Hi Strength Contact Adhesive spray.


That's a great idea! Thanks, Ill look into that.
Author:  Clay S. [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
On the jet fence and most other "T" square style fences I've seen the shims or adjusting screws located near the ends of the "T". By adjusting the thickness of the shims you can adjust the tightness of the cam against the rail and the squareness of the fence to the blade. You might try placing shims at the ends of the T on the side opposite the cam and see how that works.
Author:  Goodin [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Setting up a table saw fence
Clay S. wrote:
On the jet fence and most other "T" square style fences I've seen the shims or adjusting screws located near the ends of the "T". By adjusting the thickness of the shims you can adjust the tightness of the cam against the rail and the squareness of the fence to the blade. You might try placing shims at the ends of the T on the side opposite the cam and see how that works.


Thanks Clay. That's what I did and it seems to be working out ok. See pic in my previous post.

I will finally get shop time the next few days and I will finish setting up my saw and try to remember to post pics. I'm pretty excited about getting this done because Ive been working on it for weeks!
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