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Interesting way to ship a guitar
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Author:  Jim Watts [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Interesting way to ship a guitar

Found this UPS shipment on my front poarch yesterday! I was expecting the guitar fo a pick up installation but was a little surprised to see it was shipped that way.
It was packed very well inside the case as I had instructed the owner, but still a little surprising.
Oh, the guitar was perfect, came through with flying colors!
Attachment:
DA shipping picture.jpg

Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

It might be smart. Figure it out. It's much easier to carry and handle that way, and it's not likely to get stacked in a big stack of flat boxes. Theft might be a problem, but then it's on the carrier.

Author:  Jim Watts [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

You know Waddy, that thought had crossed my mind too. The shipper knows it's a guitar and perhaps handled a little more carefully, of course the case gets a little beat up.

Author:  Michael.N. [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

The vast majority of the times they get through unscathed.
I asked my local music shop for some sturdy cardboard boxes, large enough for a Guitar case + room for padding. All they had were boxes that cheap Guitars had been shipped in - no hard case, no bubble wrap just the cheap Guitar inside a cardboard box. I asked how many arrived damaged. To my amazement he said just one in five years!

Author:  WudWerkr [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

Knowing my luck , i would send it back exactly the way it came and THEN it would get hammered ! [headinwall]

Author:  Brad Goodman [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

I think I will stick with the case in a box!!!

Author:  Tai Fu [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

Nothing wrong with that... I've shipped guitar in a case before. I mean they're designed to be flown anyways...

Although for a more expensive guitar it would do well to ship it in a Calton case or something like it...

Author:  cphanna [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

I don't ever expect to ship many, but I've shipped one, and I've had several shipped to me. I once sat in one of the restaurant/lounges at O'Hare and watched baggage handlers heave and toss anything with a handle on it. The visual has never left my mind. I think I'll stick with CAREFULLY packing the instrument in the case, and then DOUBLE boxing it--and with at least an inch of foam peanuts between all six sides of the two boxes.
I'm just freaking. I know......

Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

Michael.N. wrote:
The vast majority of the times they get through unscathed.
I asked my local music shop for some sturdy cardboard boxes, large enough for a Guitar case + room for padding. All they had were boxes that cheap Guitars had been shipped in - no hard case, no bubble wrap just the cheap Guitar inside a cardboard box. I asked how many arrived damaged. To my amazement he said just one in five years!


Those cheap flimsy boxes are designed to be boxed 4 at a time in a big box, stacked on a pallet with about 40 other boxes, the whole thing is wrapped in plastic and delivered by tractor trailer. It is very unlikely that they will get damaged, as they don't move around, don't have other boxes thrown on top of them, and are never picked up and tossed, the way they are when you ship by UPS or DHS or something, and are never flown in those boxes, so I'm not surprised that they don't arrive broken. However, when I worked at the GC, out of the hundreds of guitars they recieved monthly, sometimes thousands during the shopping season, about ten or so a year arrived broken.

Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

What do you guys recommend for using inside the case? newspaper balls perhaps? I heard these are good for inside the cardboard box.

Author:  Jim Watts [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

Alexandru Marian wrote:
What do you guys recommend for using inside the case? newspaper balls perhaps? I heard these are good for inside the cardboard box.

Alex, I like to use old cotton rags stuffed into any crevice I can find between the guitar and the case. If there's a gap between the back and the case up by the heel, I think it's particually important to fill that. I've used old newspapers too, but think cotton rags are easier on the finish.

Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

Thanks, good idea. I was concerned about the finish too especially since it is shellac, and not too old either.

Author:  Jim Watts [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

I hope people realize I am not advocating shipping a guitar this way. This was shiped to me and I am thankful that everything turned out ok. When I ship it back, it will with a box.

Author:  Kim [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

May be OK to ship that way without too much risk if the case were a Presto...

http://www.prestocases.com.au

Only problem is that you then need to worry that someone will steal the case leaving the guitar behind :? ...Presto cases are not cheap however many pro muso's in AU, especially those with a classical following tend to gravitate to a Presto once they've dropped the cash on something like a Greg Smallman etc.

Cheers

Kim

Author:  Michael.N. [ Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

No, they leave the Guitar behind because the Presto sounds better than the Sm.........

Author:  Tai Fu [ Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

Not an interesting way to ship a guitar, but more like an interesting way of taking checking guitar wood onto a flight:

Image

Have to make sure none of those wood are CITES though...

Author:  Kim [ Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

Michael.N. wrote:
No, they leave the Guitar behind because the Presto sounds better than the Sm.........


So tell us Michael, how many world class instrumentalist do you currently have on an extended waiting list to pay you 30K+ for one of your instruments??

If anyone has 45 min to spare, the following interview conducted by Robyn Johnston on Australia's ABC Radio with Greg Smallman, John Williams and Craig Ogden is worth while listening to.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/intothemusic/stories/2011/3315842.htm

What is interesting is some of the things John Williams has say, not just about Smallman's instruments, but about some builders (Ramirez), player in general and then some pointed remarks on Segovia.....but then what would Williams know of technique and the way a guitar should sound:

John Williams:
Quote:
Guitarists generally have, in my experience, quite a limited understanding of dynamics and expression outside the limitations of the guitar, which are that it's a very quiet instrument. We don't sustain like the violin or a wind instrument. The top notes don't sustain melodically. But it's got all the benefits of being a harmonic instrument and a melodic instrument and a rhythmic instrument, and this presents enormous challenges to a maker, and I don't think all makers are quite geared to come up to that challenge, not because they're limited but because most classical guitarists are in their own world and their expectations are quite limited.


John Williams:
Quote:
It's more like a...you know you peak more at the beginning of the sound instead of spreading the total amount of sound over a longer period, and I don't want to get too technical about it, but I would say that most of the 20th century makers followed in that tradition and made some wonderful guitars, including Fleta. Early makers in the 20s and 30s, the most well known, famous because Segovia played them, were probably Ramirez, another Spaniard, and a great German maker, Hermann Hauser. I mean I have to be honest here, and I'll probably get brickbats for it, but I never understood Ramirez guitars at all because they had no basic sound at all. I don't understand why people liked them. They had no dynamics and no tone colour, and I found them a little bit like orange boxes. They made an easy, all round sort of sound.

All the instrument makers after the Second World War in the middle 20th century have sort of followed their own different strands of developing that basic Torres pattern of the mid-19th century. And individual guitars, and makers sometimes, have been very, very nice indeed, and I have tried a lot of them, but I don't think any of them have, I would say, got away from that slight percussive, and the limitations that come from that percussive quality, although it has, let me say, its charm, it has absolute musical limitations. When you have that kind of sound you can't get the range of colour or the range of dynamic, and it's actually physics.

Every recording engineer that I've ever worked with, and others too - I know that Craig Ogden, who I know well here in England and does a lot of playing and recording - every engineer, whether you're playing on a film, you're playing with an orchestra, and other musicians, they notice immediately. They always say, 'What's that guitar? Why is it easier to record? Why does it sound better? Why is it less temperamental for the equipment?'

And it's to do with that. Until you play the instrument you don't realise that the traditional Torres design does not respond in the way that I'm enunciating words now and colouring my speech to make a point. They don't do that as responsively as Smallman does, and what he has done with the design to enable that.


I guess the way a guitar 'sounds' and whether or not an individual will find that sound to their liking is subjective and to each his own. But one aspect of Greg Smallman's instruments that many seem to over look is surmised well by yet another great player:

Xuefei Yang:
Quote:
Many people know Smallman guitars for their big sound.
For many people playing at home, this may not be
so important, but when playing in a 2000 seat hall,
or performing regularly with an orchestra, it is
important to consider this.
However more important than volume, is the colour
and tone of the instrument. The Smallman is my
favoured instrument for the concert hall due to
the wide palette of colours, tones, and dynamics
it provides - I can shape the sound I want, and know
that it will be heard clearly throughout the hall.
It is my favoured concert instrument as it is so
satifsying to play it on the concert platform.

Author:  Michael.N. [ Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

Jest. Ever heard of it?

Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

Kim, I have quite a solid collection of CG recordings, a good number on Smallmans. Jest aside, I'm one that really can't stand their tone, none of them. And the couple I heard live didn't do it for me either. Matter of taste, maybe mine is flawed, but I'm not the only hater. I don't need to sell my guitars for 30k or even build or play guitars to have an opinion on how music sounds nice or not. I'm not saying GS guitars suck, just that not everyone likes them, and the fact that they sell for big bucks or Williams or Xuefei and even the ghost of Segovia might like them is not going to fix my distaste. Maybe I would appreciate GS (and Williams' playing) more if I was from Oz :) I hope you won't love me less now :) In any case we have gone way OT here.

Author:  WilliamS [ Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

Alexandru Marian wrote:
Kim, I have quite a solid collection of CG recordings, a good number on Smallmans. Jest aside, I'm one that really can't stand their tone, none of them. And the couple I heard live didn't do it for me either. Matter of taste, maybe mine is flawed, but I'm not the only hater. I don't need to sell my guitars for 30k or even build or play guitars to have an opinion on how music sounds nice or not. I'm not saying GS guitars suck, just that not everyone likes them, and the fact that they sell for big bucks or Williams or Xuefei and even the ghost of Segovia might like them is not going to fix my distaste. Maybe I would appreciate GS (and Williams' playing) more if I was from Oz :) I hope you won't love me less now :) In any case we have gone way OT here.


+1. Sorry to stay off topic but, although I have the utmost respect for JW and I agree that Smallman style guitars do offer certain advantages, I (as well as MANY others) don't care for the sound at all. I also agree with JW that Ramirez guitars were overrated.

Author:  Tai Fu [ Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

In my opinion, pricing is a marketing move. You price your instruments for a certain market, for example no one is going to pay 30,000 dollars on a first guitar, so this is obviously for a more professional market, same with any guitar that costs more than 1000 dollars...

But of course for a small builder you can't just build a guitar for less than 2000 dollars because of the time it would take for the builder to do it. Those who do it cheap targets a lower market where there are more people in those markets, so they invest in equipments and facilities for mass production and make their profit that way.

Author:  Mike Dotson [ Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

I once sat in one of the restaurant/lounges at O'Hare and watched baggage handlers heave and toss anything with a handle on it.

I have a friend with an extensive guitar collection. Higher-end Martins, Taylors, etc. and one day at a open mic he shows up with a cheap Yamaha. I joked and asked him if he'd lost his job. He replied by telling me about the time he was sitting in an airplane on the tarmac and watched the baggage handler pull his cased guitar off the little trolley thing and give it the heave-ho into the hold. After that he decided to buy a 'travel guitar'.

Author:  Mike Dotson [ Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

I once sat in one of the restaurant/lounges at O'Hare and watched baggage handlers heave and toss anything with a handle on it.

I have a friend with an extensive guitar collection. Higher-end Martins, Taylors, etc. and one day at a open mic he shows up with a cheap Yamaha. I joked and asked him if he'd lost his job. He replied by telling me about the time he was sitting in an airplane on the tarmac and watched the baggage handler pull his cased guitar off the little trolley thing and give it the heave-ho into the hold. After that he decided to buy a 'travel guitar'.

Author:  Kim [ Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting way to ship a guitar

Michael.N. wrote:
Jest. Ever heard of it?


Yes I have Michael, but I find it polite to smile after delivery less my attempt arrive as sarcasm. :)


Kim wrote:
I guess the way a guitar 'sounds' and whether or not an individual will find that sound to their liking is subjective and to each his own.


Alexandru Marian wrote:
Jest aside, I'm one that really can't stand their tone, none of them. And the couple I heard live didn't do it for me either. Matter of taste, maybe mine is flawed, but I'm not the only hater. In any case we have gone way OT here.


Indeed Alex...way OT.

By the way, my comments have nothing to do with patriotism and the money aspect was mentioned because it is relevant. 'Regardless' of what 'you' may like or dislike as an individual, the simple fact of the matter is that some of the greatest classical guitar players of all time, 'pay', and pay handsomely, for the privilege of owning and playing a Smallman guitar. Theses people 'choose' to play Smallman guitars exclusively, and whilst I agree that we all have right to our own opinions, the simple truth is that when it comes to qualified and expert opinion, that single point puts end to any debate about whether or not Smallman guitars sound good....What I am hearing during that interview I linked to (worth the effort for your own education by the way) is that Smallman's design has allowed the guitar greater scope in expression than all before.

Cheers

Kim

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