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| General Finishes http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=33692 |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | General Finishes |
Anybody tried General Finishes on steel strings? Either the Enduro-Var, Pre-cat urethane and Clear poly? And what were your results? http://www.generalfinishes.com/professional-products/water-base-topcoats-and-sanding-sealers |
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| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
Sorry Laurent I have nothing to offer but thought I would give this a bump. Link |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
I have used their wipe on finishes for years, but never on a guitar. Ken |
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| Author: | Brook Moore [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
As it happens, I just received a quart of Enduro-Var in the mail yesterday. I hope to spray a test panel in the next couple of weeks. Here is some info that I received from General Finishes to my questions about Enduro Var and the Pre Cat Urethane. Quote: Brook use the Enduro Var. It is more like an oil urethane and can be recoated in 2 hours. This product will give you excellent depth and is extremely durable. Water base products do not have burn in like the lac but they attach on. So you are better letting it dry out for a good two hours between coats. We recommend letting it dry dry good for 2 weeks
I also have a couple guys that do this for a living and here is a suggested system they used for a project they did with our Enduro Var... yep, he did the back to back thing, to create a uniform 1 coat for the final rub Subject: FW: Schedule for EV Try this schedule. It takes 3 coats 1 day and 3 coats the next day. ________________________________________ From: Jeff Jewitt [mailto:jbjewitt@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:47 PM To: 'Tom Monahan' Subject: Schedule for EV 1. Prep wood to 220 2. Spray full wet coat of EV gloss - wait 2 hours 3. Level sand 320 - spray 2 nd full wet coat wait 2 hours - light sand 320 4. Full wet coat --- wait over night 5. Level sand with 320 - wipe with water and 5% DNA 6. Wet coat 2-3 mils dry 1 hr and repeat twice for a total of 3 coats only 1 hr in -between Let dry 1 week Level sand dry with P800 Mirka. Sand dry with P1200 Mirka Sand with 2000 grit Abralon dry (Note - do NOT use lubricants of any type to level sand) Then - 3M Finesse-it Finishing Material on foam buffing pad to gloss. Have a great day! Sheryl Monahan General Finishes 1-800-783-6050 2462 Corporate Circle East Troy, WI. 53120 http://www.generalfinishes.com |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
Brook, keep us updated on your progress. What are you going to use for a test panel? |
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| Author: | Jim_H [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
Excellent info! Thanks... Also you might want to remove the email address from the post before the bots find it. |
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| Author: | Ken Mitchell [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
Laurent, I just sprayed three steel string guitars with their Clear Gloss Poly (water based) a couple of months ago. These were student guitars, and I was looking for something that was easy, relatively glossy, and durable. For a quick finish on a student guitar, it worked well. The guitars came out of the spray process with a semi-gloss, egg-shell finish. We pretty much just used a fine grit swirl remover, then polished them, and that gave a level of shine that was sufficient for our needs. I did level and buff out around joined areas (neck, bridge), so that if the students wanted to level and actually buff out the whole guitar later, they could. They haven't really pursued that idea, so I'm assuming that they're pleased with them the way they are. Overall, the finish was very easy to level and work with, but the gloss is not as good as a lacquer finish. Hope this helps... |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
What General Finishes poly did you use Ken? The PolyAcrylic, High Performance, or the Enduro? |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
I've only used their wipe on poly on a slab git, and I like it. I think you won't be happy with water based "blueness". Looks okay to me on light woods, but not dark. I would do a comparison on scrap wood. You are a varnish guy, and nothing in my opinion beats varnish. I would love to find a good water based finish though. |
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| Author: | Steve_E [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
I sprayed my last with the pre-cat sanding sealer and the pre-cat urethane (gloss). After sufficient dry time, I power leveled with micro-mesh for ROS and got very good results. Hard, flat and glossy. I'm planning on using it until I find something easier. I love the fact that it is water-based for the cleanup and chemicals. I still wear a spray mask, but I'm not anal about it. Steve |
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| Author: | AlBDarned [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
Just noticed in the last Lee Valley catalogue that they're carrying this stuff now, fyi. http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=63849&cat=1,190,42942 |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
Steve_E wrote: I sprayed my last with the pre-cat sanding sealer and the pre-cat urethane (gloss). After sufficient dry time, I power leveled with micro-mesh for ROS and got very good results. Hard, flat and glossy. I'm planning on using it until I find something easier. I love the fact that it is water-based for the cleanup and chemicals. I still wear a spray mask, but I'm not anal about it. Steve, do you want to detail your process a bit more? How many coats, and did you measure the final film thickness? How long did you let it cure? Did you machine buff it and how's the gloss? Are you happy with the way the finish looks and feels? BTW, just because it's waterbase and much lower in VOC does not mean there are no nasty chemicals in it. I wouldn't be too cavalier with protection.
Steve |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
Laurent Brondel wrote: What General Finishes poly did you use Ken? The PolyAcrylic, High Performance, or the Enduro? Laurent, I used their Arm R Seal wipe on varnish for years with other wood projects. Prior to getting into water based lacquer about 4 years ago, Arm R Seal was my finish of choice. I used it on breakfast tables, chests, mantle clocks, and all sorts of other furniture. I used to rub it out with rubbing oil, pumice, and rottenstone. I didn't get the high gloss I get with EM6000, but I got a great finish with minimal effort. I don't know anything about GF's other finishes, but commented only to point that I was familiar with the company and had used one of their finishes. Ken |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
Let's talk repairability and melt in. Anything that crosslinks means to me, low melt in, witness lines, and forget repairs. Am I wrong? Mike |
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| Author: | Ken Mitchell [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
Laurent, The poly that I used was the High Performance water based topcoat, in gloss finish. |
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| Author: | Ken Mitchell [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
Laurent, The poly that I used was the High Performance water based topcoat, in gloss finish. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
Thank you Ken & Ken, I am only interested in the Enduro line of products. Mike, all the issues you point to are also valid to a great extent for oil varnish. It never bothered me. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
Laurent Brondel wrote: Thank you Ken & Ken, I am only interested in the Enduro line of products. Mike, all the issues you point to are also valid to a great extent for oil varnish. It never bothered me. I thought that was the case. I was not challenging the finish on those merits, I was just wondering. Mike |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
I'm bumping this as I have an interest in the Enduro water based finishes ( mainly Enduro-Var or clear gloss) and wondered if anyone had further observations/feedback? |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
Colin North wrote: I'm bumping this as I have an interest in the Enduro water based finishes ( mainly Enduro-Var or clear gloss) and wondered if anyone had further observations/feedback? I don't know if this will help, but I used the Enduro-Var for my kitchen cabinets about two weeks ago. As a comparison, I had used EM2000 on a couple of kitchens and cabinetry before, and found the Enduro to spray much better and dry harder. The re-coat time was 5-6 hours for my conditions. I thinned about 10% with distilled water, and sprayed with a Wagner HVLP conversion gun set at 14psi at the gun. Maybe my technique is improving, but I found much less overspray compared to the EM2000. As far as cabinetry, this is going to be my finish of choice for now. Alex |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: General Finishes |
Alan, Try KTM-SV, a waterborne spar varnish. It's a urethane. |
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