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| alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=33621 |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots |
Given that some saws like saw stop can't accept small blades, and the trouble of changing out table saw blades each time you have to cut fret slots, I was just thinking what about a jig that uses foredom handpieces with a saw wheel that is about .5mm in thickness attached to it? I wouldn't be thinking of a dremel because I don't think they have enough power to cut through anything... On a side note, are there saw wheels that are meant to be attached to a rotary tool that are .5mm thick? |
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| Author: | Ken McKay [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots |
How many fretboards are you considering. By the time you get the jig set up and perfected I believe that you could have sawn a couple years worth of boards by hand. |
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| Author: | Wes McMillian [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots |
If you don't want to change saw blades (which takes all of a minute or so?), you might dedicate a cheap benchtop saw to the task. I have a dedicated direct drive Delta saw that my fret saw setup stays on, just because I had the saw and decided to put it to use. Quick, easy, and repeatable with any one of the blades available (I have one of Shane's from several years ago.) Takes up a little more floor space, but if that's an issue, the base can be tossed and the benchtop saw stored somewhere until you need it. I built a sled and fretting template that stays on the saw at all times. |
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| Author: | Sondre [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots |
I use the saw blade that came with my dremel for fret slotting. The fret slots are so shallow, so my dremel has no problem cutting them. I use the fence on a table saw, like this. It really works surprisingly well |
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| Author: | Matt Shumway [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots |
Sondre wrote: I use the saw blade that came with my dremel for fret slotting. The fret slots are so shallow, so my dremel has no problem cutting them. I use the fence on a table saw, like this. It really works surprisingly well I had been wondering if this were possible. I didn't see anything that came with my dremel that would be useable as a saw blade. I would interested in seeing more details of how this is set up. Got anymore pictures? 
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots |
The question is, are there saw blades that are .02" thick? The only saw blades I have seen for the dremel is about .005" thick. It's more of a question if I should even bother buying a benchtop table saw for blank sizing and stuff if I could simply do it with a band saw... |
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| Author: | David Malicky [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots |
I built a mini-table saw for fret slots on our student project guitars -- more work than just using a 2nd bench saw but it's compact and quiet. 3" x 0.023" HSS blades and stiffeners are available from Thurston and others. 1/2" TGP shaft pressed in ball bearings... no arbor slop. Most everything is from 3/4" BB ply. Students love it. More details if wanted. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots |
david82282 wrote: I built a mini-table saw for fret slots on our student project guitars -- more work than just using a 2nd bench saw but it's compact and quiet. 3" x 0.023" HSS blades and stiffeners are available from Thurston and others. 1/2" TGP shaft pressed in ball bearings... no arbor slop. Most everything is from 3/4" BB ply. Students love it. More details if wanted. Some details would be appreciated, but I think I might just think about hand-cutting the thing. I am trying to figure out a budget for tools and I am thinking I could skip buying a table saw and buy the 1000 dollar 14" bandsaw. I can think of very few uses for a table saw in a luthier shop... seems most of the other cuts I would use a table saw for could be done on the bandsaw. I can buy a dedicated slotting setup later on when I have more budgets... |
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| Author: | Mark Fogleman [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots |
There's Pete Howlett's Fretmaster if you're up to a DIY project: http://youtu.be/m44jBZeS1QM |
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| Author: | Matt Shumway [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots |
Tarhead wrote: There's Pete Howlett's Fretmaster if you're up to a DIY project: http://youtu.be/m44jBZeS1QM Wow that looks awesome. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots |
Cut them by hand, it really doesn't take to long if you have a decent set up. Less noise and less room. Tai Fu, how did you cut the fret slots on your first couple of guitars you've made? Buying pre cut boards can be a good place to start, heck go a small fee I'd thickness cut and radius boards for you, you pay material, shipping and cut the taper when you get them back. Everything costs money, you just have to decide where you're going to spend it (which is what you're doing) 
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots |
Rod True wrote: Cut them by hand, it really doesn't take to long if you have a decent set up. Less noise and less room. Tai Fu, how did you cut the fret slots on your first couple of guitars you've made? Buying pre cut boards can be a good place to start, heck go a small fee I'd thickness cut and radius boards for you, you pay material, shipping and cut the taper when you get them back. Everything costs money, you just have to decide where you're going to spend it (which is what you're doing) They were pre-cut for the first couple of guitars. I have to push the envelope with this because on the first build it was a "serviced kit" from LMI (pre made neck, pre bent sides, pre cut/radiused fingerboard, pre shaped braces, etc.) and on the second build it was an "unserviced kit" (basically a pile of wood that can be made into a guitar, with no prior work done to it other than sizing), but I feel it's time that I slot my own fingerboard, because sometimes when I source materials from places other than OLF sponsors, they will not slot or radius the boards for you. I have a fret saw but I don't have the special miter box that are supposed to be paired with it. While in Germany I found a miter box that looks to be the right depth and width for fretting operation, but since the kerf cut into that miter box is a bit wide (about 1.5mm) I an not sure if that's good enough... The miter box from LMI costs like 175 dollars which comes with the saw, template, and box. I don't think they sell the box separately... It's the difference between 14 euros vs 170 dollars. I can just buy another pre slotted fingerboard from LMI and use that as a template. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots |
Miter box isn't entirely necessary. I just clamp a wood block to the fingerboard right at the mark, and lightly hold the blade against it with my left hand while sawing. Certainly more time consuming than a quick zip across a table saw blade, but it still makes nice clean slots. Plus you don't have to change technique for multiscale fretboards where each slot is at a different angle. But do make sure you measure and mark the slot locations accurately. If possible, use a ruler with .5mm or 1/64" marks. I mark 3 times, for error checking and for maximum reference to keep them perpendicular to the centerline. And when clamping the saw guide block, make sure it's always the exact same position relative to the marks. And mark a zero fret slot too, but cut it all the way through the board. That guarantees the nut to 1st fret span is consistent with the rest of your slots, and is half a kerf width shorter than its measured value (a good thing... sort of like a tiny nut compensation, for the sharpening due to string stretch compared to open notes). Not rocket science, but it pays to be thorough Intonation is hard enough even if the frets are perfect.
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| Author: | David Malicky [ Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternatives to using a table saw to cut fret slots |
Dennis has great advice on hand cutting. If you're willing to spend the time required, it works and is low $. If done on a non-tapered fretboard, a machinist's or combo square saw guide keeps the frets perpendicular to the length. We cut by hand for a few years; it does take time and very close attention to get the slots precisely located and the cuts uniformly clean. More details on the saw: I used a 250W 24VDC scooter motor and SCR control that I had on hand. The power is just enough and it allows speed control, but I've left it at 100%. If doing again, I'd go with a 1/2-1 HP AC motor (good for general precision cutting, too). The arbor pulley is inherently close to the underside of the table; an "XL" series timing pulley works well. http://www.sdp-si.com has a good selection of pulleys and shaft. Video of it starts at 0:37 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA7xHdj6XRk Pete Howlett's saw looks terrific. I can't tell if the kerf is right for 0.023" slot frets? If so, it's certainly easier to make than a powered saw. |
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