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| French Polish the Neck? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=33559 |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | French Polish the Neck? |
I am wondering what all you FP finishers do for your necks. This is my first attempt at FP on my current flamenco build and everything I read says how careful players must be to protect there delicate FP finished guitars. Well the neck obviously gets a good rub down through time so do some of you prefer to use another finish for the neck? If so what? The neck on this guitar is Spanish Cedar. Regards. |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
Nothing special. The problem with FP is on the back and sides where it touches the body. On the neck it seems to withstand wear admirably. |
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| Author: | Stephen Boone [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
I sand the neck up to 220p grit and leave the sanding dust in place. I work this dust into the pores with 1/2 lb cut of shellack. I sand back and repeat several times. I then put as thin a session of French polish as I can get away with and am done. I like the way this feels and it looks fine. Spanish cedar is wonderful to work with in this regard. |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
It's normal for violins to leave the neck unfinished. I have seen classical guitars (I think Hopf) that had striped ebony veneer on the back of the neck, and no finish. The purpose is to provide a better feel for the thumb moving. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
wbergman wrote: It's normal for violins to leave the neck unfinished. I have seen classical guitars (I think Hopf) that had striped ebony veneer on the back of the neck, and no finish. The purpose is to provide a better feel for the thumb moving. I had a client who wanted me to leave the back of his neck unfinished. (Steel string) I talked him into letting me finish it with satin polyester, with the agreement I'd remove the finish if he didn't like it. Luckily he liked it. I don't usually French Polish, but I think it would be good on a neck. If it wears off it would be easy enough to repair. Some people like the worn neck look. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
Woody - I imagine the satin polyester would have nice feel to it on the neck. Have you done any necks in gloss polyester? If so, how do they feel? |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
One compromise I have heard of is to finish the neck as usual, but then rough it up by sanding with a moderately fine grit. I think part of the problem with too smooth a finsih is that the surface tension grabs at the thumb. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
On my personal guitars, I used to FPS the neck as I did the bodies. After playing, however, the shellac begins to wear and requires frequent re-application. I eventually sanded off all of the shellac and began applying Danish Oil... one application per day for 2 weeks. It is now my favorite neck finish and have been winning converts each time someone visits the shop. I have also found that matte finished polyester has the same dry and fast surface feel. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
CharlieT wrote: Woody - I imagine the satin polyester would have nice feel to it on the neck. Have you done any necks in gloss polyester? If so, how do they feel? It depends on who you ask. I suppose it has something to do with the players skin. My hand sticks to a glossy neck, reguardless of type of finish. I've got a friend, (an excellent player) who's hand sticks to any type of satin finish. I like polyester for necks because it's tough as nails, and relatively easy on Mahogany. (no pore filling, 1 coat of sealer, 2 coats of Polyester, level sand, and one more coat) I add flattening paste to make the back of the neck satin. I still buff it, just like Gloss. Doc Watson played a guitar I built and told the guitar's owner he loved the satin neck. (In case anyone doesn't know Doc's blind) JJ, when the FP wears on the neck does it feel.....funny, or just look worn? |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
It feels irregular and flaky in spots. Once sanded down and FPS reapplied, it becomes smooth again. I just got tired of the routine and tried Danish Oil. Glad I did because I never looked back. I now just love the DO finish and feel on the neck. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
JJ Donohue wrote: It feels irregular and flaky in spots. Once sanded down and FPS reapplied, it becomes smooth again. I just got tired of the routine and tried Danish Oil. Glad I did because I never looked back. I now just love the DO finish and feel on the neck. My Great Grandfather built Violins. I don't know if this was "standard" but his bodies and pegheads were Varnishes. Instead of leaving the back of the neck un finished he put some type of oil finish on it. It looked unfinished, but didn't get all grimey like unfinished Maple would. |
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| Author: | Dave Rickard [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
I FP the bodies and use Birchwood Casey Tru Oil on the necks. I've finished a few gun stocks with Tru oil and it seems to wear well |
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| Author: | Mitch Johnson [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
I believe the finish on a violin neck is cold pressed linseed oil. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
I think if you leave the neck bare, the moisture from your hand and the environment will cause it to eventually warp. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
Ok thanks for your input, I went ahead and FP'd it anyway. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
I'm always under the impression that the whole guitar is french polished, including the neck... |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
There are ore than one way to fjinish. Some people FP only the top, for the sound quality, but used a more durable finish on the rest of the guitar. Some people FP the whole thing. Some people do other combinations of finishes, or lack of finish. |
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| Author: | Chris.Conery [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
I have to agree with JJ that Danish oil is a great way to go. I make classicals and FP the body but use an oil that Watco calls "Teak Oil", designed for hardwoods. I leave the pores unfilled (mahogany and cedro), give the neck a very fine sanding, and apply several coats of oil. I find the oil finish to be less sticky and customers have all approved. Cheers, Chris |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
+1 on the oil finish for the neck. I use 'Tried and True' from Lee Valley. Very slick feel. Everyone who tries it loves it. |
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| Author: | munen [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
Chris.Conery wrote: I have to agree with JJ that Danish oil is a great way to go. I make classicals and FP the body but use an oil that Watco calls "Teak Oil", designed for hardwoods. I leave the pores unfilled (mahogany and cedro), give the neck a very fine sanding, and apply several coats of oil. I find the oil finish to be less sticky and customers have all approved. Cheers, Chris what about duration on mid/long term? does it need some kind of maintenance to avoid wear out? im thinking that if the neck develops zones of bare wood, there might be stains caused by hand contact. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
Do you guys that use oil on the necks just oil the playing surface. In other words do you FP the heal and the head stock and just oil from like the body joint fret to the nut? |
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| Author: | Chris.Conery [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
munen wrote: what about duration on mid/long term? does it need some kind of maintenance to avoid wear out? im thinking that if the neck develops zones of bare wood, there might be stains caused by hand contact. Well, I suppose any finish can wear out. I haven't seen it happen with my guitars, but I haven't been building very long. I think an oil finish is quite durable. In any case, the small amount of maintenance that may be required is very easy to do - requiring a cloth and a bit of oil: wipe it on, let it sit, rub it off. It's mistake proof and will only make your guitar more beautiful. jfmckenna wrote: Do you guys that use oil on the necks just oil the playing surface. In other words do you FP the heal and the head stock and just oil from like the body joint fret to the nut? Speaking only for myself, the whole neck gets oiled (not the headplate), different oil for the fretboard. Cheers, Chris |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: French Polish the Neck? |
I oil the neck from the headstock volute to and including the heel, The headplate and back of the headplate gets finished in glossy Cat Poly. I have yet to wear out the surface in 5 years. Nonetheless, I clean the surface with Naptha once a year and apply about 3-5 daily applications at the same time. It seems like the more I play it the smoother and slicker it feels. This is much different than my experience with FPS. |
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