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Neck rod not functioning
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Author:  Nils [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Neck rod not functioning
Hey guys,
I dont really post here too often just because I don't really get on my computer often...Although, I always see cool things when I come here so I think I'm gonna work on this. Anyway, to start, I'm Nils Johnson - 21 years old, live in Western Massachusetts. I started lutherie work (cough coughsweeping floors, cleaning shop etc.coughcough) at Downtown Sounds in Northampton just before graduating from high school. I worked there for about two years, then left because I was over extending myself with classes I was taking and working my other (closer to home/better paying) job. So here I am now, taking the semester off and not working(a real job) so I can build acoustic guitars and mandos. Which brings me to this....
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Its a 12 fret parlor type guitar, typical martin scale. Mahogany back and sides, spruce top, rosewood binding, and rock maple neck.
The neck rod worked fine in the vice. But now that its in the neck, (which is about 3/4 done so there isnt much bulk coming off at this point) I cant really get much of a back bend with the nut as tight as I'm comfortable tightening. I'm confident the rod works and I'm confident the rod installed properly. I'm guessing the maple is just so beastly it doesn't want to move despite the pressure. Maybe? I've seen tons of guitars with neck rods that don't adjust when doing setups and and other repairs. It just saddens me that its happening on mine. : (
So any recommendations or thoughts? New neck? Overlook it since I can get a tiny back bend?
Thanks!
Author:  quentinjazz [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck rod not functioning
Hi,

This is too bad [xx(]

Maybe some glue from under the fingerboard went into the trussrod slot?
Did you put a wooden stick above your trussrod, preventing the glue to slip into the routed slot?

Cheers,

Q.
Author:  Corky Long [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck rod not functioning
Does the truss rod tighten/turn at all? If so, sounds like your explanation of stiff neck is the answer. How thick is your neck? If the truss rod won't tighten, either bad truss rod or wayward glue? (in which case, sorry, may require some disassembly.)
Author:  Tom West [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck rod not functioning
Nils: It would have to take an awful lot of extra glue in my mind to prevent your rod from working. Lots of rods are in fact glued into their slots. This can make the neck quite stiff and very little adjustment will be needed to get proper relief. I would suggest that you get strings on your guitar and determine the state of affairs before even thinking about taking the board off or a new neck. Best of luck with the trial.
Tom
Author:  bluescreek [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck rod not functioning
what kind of rod did you use ? If you can get some back bow that should be ok. At the stage you are at you would be able to pull the fretboard to replace it . I am interested in what you used and how you placed it .
Author:  Nils [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck rod not functioning
I'm not sure what exactly to call the rod...Its a one way type thing with a steel rod bend 180 degrees at one end and brass block at the other. Its the kind that you should preload a slight backbend into before planing and installing frets. The rod was tapped, and placed in the channel with a thin (~.03") stip above it. Generally, I place my rods in the vertical middle of the neck and use a thicker strip. I chose to have a more shallow channel because this neck is going to adjust from the headstock.

At this point I've decided to keep going with it because it DOES adjust...I really do think its just a stiff neck.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck rod not functioning
With that type of rod, you HAVE to have it buried deep in the neck. That is why it is not working. I use this type of rod and install it within 1/8" of the back of the neck. I also use a curved bottom channel at the headstock end (about 1/16" curve upward) to get a little extra adjustment in this area.

I would remove the fretboard, pull the rod, route it deeper and redo. At this point in your build, you should be able to recover from this mistake without any evidence in the finished instrument.
Author:  Nils [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck rod not functioning
Wow, Thanks Barry!
That changes my afternoon a bit!
Ill let you guys know how this goes.
Author:  Tom West [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck rod not functioning
Nils: Gave you bad advice re: your type of rod. Didn't think folks were using that type of rod. Sorry about that. Carry on with mod.
Tom
Author:  Nils [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck rod not functioning
Yeah, I def shouldve mentioned the type of rod I was using...what do people call those anyways?
And sadly, I've decided to go ahead and just make a new neck. I;ve got the scarf joint and heel blank gluing up right now. I chose to do this because I really didnt want to see the nut any farther down the headstock and also (something I didnt mention before because I was embarrassed) because the the channel the rod is in veers off to the treble side as it gets closer to 12th fret.

Since Im making a new neck, I'm thinking I want use a different rod. What would you guys recommend in this case? (short neck, adjusts from headstock)
Author:  Rod True [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck rod not functioning
Typically this type can be refered to as a Gibson, single action style as they are the ones that made it popluar. Not totally sure but Jim Olson was using the same style through the first 1000 or so guitars (he may still). Barry is right, you have to set those style of truss rods deeper in the neck as well as making the channel taper from the heel up to the nut area (as the neck tapers too), this also helps with the use of the rod. I used this style of rod on my first 4 guitars and it worked just fine, but have since switch to a double action rod as in my opinion, they just work better.

How short of a neck? What scale are you building? I like the Allied two way truss rods, the just work!
Author:  Tom West [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck rod not functioning
This type of rod is used in two versions. Straight rod just buried deep and the curved rod which takes a bit more wood work. The curved rod works much better in my estimation.
Tom
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