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| Gibson Raided Again ? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=33311 |
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| Author: | windsurfer [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Gibson Raided Again ? |
http://www.wkrn.com/story/15325684/feds ... -nashville Aug 24, 2011 10:28 AM PDT "NASHVILLE, Tenn. – Federal agents raided the Gibson Guitar Corporation in Nashville Wednesday morning. Authorities have yet to release details as to why the facility on Massman Drive off Elm Hill Pike was raided although it's believed to be related to a raid at the same facility in November 2009 for possible violations of the Lacey Act. The Lacey Act is a federal environmental law that prohibits importing endangered plants and wildlife. It was amended in 2009 to also include wood products. During the raid in 2009, federal agents seized materials, files and computers from the plant on allegations that a rare ebony wood from Madagascar was illegally used at the factory. No charges were ever filed Wednesday morning, several hundred employees at the facility were first evacuated. They were later told to go home after being allowed to reenter the building to collect their belongings. The Gibson Guitar facility in Memphis was also raided by federal authorities Wednesday morning. Agents with the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service remained on the scene in Nashville Wednesday afternoon. Nashville's News 2 will update this story as more information becomes available." |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
We have a MAJOR drug problem in this country that the Gov cannot get a hold on . We have Major Crime that makes it Unsafe to walk the streets . We have People loosing eveything they have from a bad economy . We have Crooked politicans who cannot keep thier "nude Pics " off the internet . Homless people , Major Illness .................... Shall I go on ! AND THE GOVERNMENT IS WORRIED ABOUT SOME FREEKIN WOOD !! ![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad") YOUR TAX DOLLARS HARD AT WORK |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
You said it WUD... but before I go political, I'l stop right there. |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
Seems they are more worried about Madagascars natural resorces than our own.  All the while, they aren't doing anything about the Ash Borer (From China)that's killing all our Ash Trees. What a buntch of crooks!
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| Author: | John Killin [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
windsurfer wrote: During the raid in 2009, federal agents seized materials, files and computers Well and don't forget the poor guy who is going to be out of work when he comes back and doesn't have a file to level the frets.  
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
John Killin wrote: windsurfer wrote: During the raid in 2009, federal agents seized materials, files and computers Well and don't forget the poor guy who is going to be out of work when he comes back and doesn't have a file to level the frets. Or a 30 degree edge file  !!! Not to mention the Nut Files !!!
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| Author: | weslewis [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
Wow??!!! 
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
Guess who's prices are going up.... |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
The lacey act is out or hand. What makes it even worse is that the rules a vague. In one instance of this , a crab company couldn't keep up with orders and bought brought in crabs from Honduras. They asked the company freeze them in plastic bags . The government arrested them . The out come was 8 yrs in prison and $250,000.00 in fines. The lawyers brought government people in from Honduras to help their clients to explain that while there is a law in Honduras about not shipping frozen crabs in plastic bags and they couldn't find any cases where Honduras charged anyone in over 10 years , the government found a Honduran secretary that worked in the department to state that they did one case . JAIL Yup think George Orwell may have been wrong ? |
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| Author: | Stephen Boone [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
It is only a matter of time before independent luthiers get raided. Everyone needs to go to the Guild of American Luthiers website and read up on the provisions of the Lacey act. Good luck understanding any of it, it is only about 20 pages long... The reality is that most anyone building guitars for profit is in some way in violation of Federal law as it stands right now. Can YOU give provenance as to genus and species of the wood you are using and provide said provenance as to the legality of the harvest of those materials all the way back to the country of origin? The burden of proof is on you. The Duke of Pearl went through all of this and has shared his experiences on the Guild website. |
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| Author: | Bailey [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
You mean...if you DON'T build guitars for profit....You're not on the RADAR? Whewwwww! It sure looks like someone has it in for Gibson. Govt. agencies gone mad! KB |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
Bailey wrote: You mean...if you DON'T build guitars for profit....You're not on the RADAR? Whewwwww! It sure looks like someone has it in for Gibson. Govt. agencies gone mad! KB Seems America is slowly descending into fascism. |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
They go after individuals, too. Their interest in pursuing someone might depend upon how flagrant the activites. An example I know is "Yoshi", who imported CITES listed endangered species of butterflies without CITES documents. He also grossly undestated the value for customs, which is a separte violation. I think he got 23 months in the federal resort. |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Nah. They'll just stop building anything in the USA. Time to go overseas and avoid this mess. With any luck, they can reduce their tax burden too! Filippo Exactly! |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
With all this trouble just about everyone will build outside of the USA to save money, leading to a brain drain like East Germany, then forcing the government to adopt anti emigration policies to keep people in. Basically like China in the 1960's. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
Until we start speaking up loudly against the tyrannies that are being imposed upon us by various government entities, we will keep losing our rights and freedoms. This is just another classic example of mindless beauracricies, imposing their will on others. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
ernie wrote: Until we start speaking up loudly against the tyrannies that are being imposed upon us by various government entities, we will keep losing our rights and freedoms. This is just another classic example of mindless beauracricies, imposing their will on others. Not even sure what good that will do. I mean it might make a difference in the short run but the complacency is so big that anytime you speak against the authorities, they suppress you by whatever means available to them. It's funny the US State Department writes human right reports on every country in the world, even Canada which talks about any human right abuses of that country. If you read the one on Canada it even makes them look like they're out to steal people's rights, but the US is guilty of many of the things that they publish in those country reports. When they start regulating stuff that people throw away (Abalone shells, etc.) then it's too far gone. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
Fish and Wildlife is the worst of all. I was watching a report today on their efforts to close down boating on a man-made reservoir in Idaho because of some water fowl that isn't even indigenous to the area. All the F&W Agent could say was that it was a mandate from the Federal Govt.. It isn't even an endangered species, but it has something to do with the requirements of the Wildlife Habitat Regulation.(Don't know if I got that exactly right! I was so mad I was having trouble concentrating!) |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
Tai Fu wrote: ernie wrote: Until we start speaking up loudly against the tyrannies that are being imposed upon us by various government entities, we will keep losing our rights and freedoms. This is just another classic example of mindless beauracricies, imposing their will on others. Not even sure what good that will do. I mean it might make a difference in the short run but the complacency is so big that anytime you speak against the authorities, they suppress you by whatever means available to them. It's funny the US State Department writes human right reports on every country in the world, even Canada which talks about any human right abuses of that country. If you read the one on Canada it even makes them look like they're out to steal people's rights, but the US is guilty of many of the things that they publish in those country reports. When they start regulating stuff that people throw away (Abalone shells, etc.) then it's too far gone. It's called "misdirection". Accuse other people of doing something, and people will think you're against and it and won't do it. |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
[quote="Tai Fu"]It's funny the US State Department writes human right reports on every country in the world, even Canada which talks about any human right abuses of that country. If you read the one on Canada it even makes them look like they're out to steal people's rights, but the US is guilty of many of the things that they publish in those country reports. Make no mistake, we in Canada are having our rights slowly eroded as they are in the USA, usually under the guise of "National Security" and foreign trade agreements. But to think that there are no human rights abuses in Canada is wrong. Any place that man sets foot on will have abuses. Governments and their' agencies always have to justify their existence and budgets. The easiest way is to target those groups or industries that affect the fewest. In all honesty, does the general public care what happens to the guitar industry? It is laudable to protect the resources of foreign nations, but we protect many repressive regimes because they are of strategic importance. We are saved from pieces of wood while children are still starving. Alex |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
Lets just say that I will buy all my shells from inlaidartist from ebay... at least his prices are much better compared to LMI or Stewmac. If you're lucky you can sometimes score hundreds of dollars worth of inlay material for only 20 dollars. |
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| Author: | windsurfer [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
Todd Stock wrote: So..no charges filed after a high profile raid, then a follow-up raid? Sounds like someone needed an FY11 evaluation and rating plan item checked off. This is what happens when you get to spend OPM (Other People's Money) with little or no accountability. According to this article: http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/ne ... a=e_du_pub Following the previous raid, US Attorney's Office filed a complaint under the Lacey Act (in 2010) and also sought official forfeiture of 6 guitars. -jd |
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| Author: | Quine [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
Sounds like Gibson is a real danger to the public in general We wonder why all jobs are moving offshore....here's one reason why |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
Quine wrote: Sounds like Gibson is a real danger to the public in general We wonder why all jobs are moving offshore....here's one reason why You've got that right! Jobs are moving offshore because our govt makes doing business in the US painful and expensive. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson Raided Again ? |
I don't know about y'all but I sure will sleep good tonight knowing we are all nice and save.  Maybe the chief in charge has a thing for Martin guitars 
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