As you probably know, make your dept of cut very shallow. Paper thin or thinner shavings
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| Planing flamed maple http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=33157 |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Planing flamed maple |
Just gouged my rosette made of flamed maple, ebony and mahogany. Flamed maple tore out. Not too deep, but I can't afford to have it happen again. What is the best way to go about this? |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
Joey: I assume this is an inlayed rosette....? Why not try a card scraper and/or abrasives. Tom |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
Scraper works for me. Hopefully someday I'll be able to do it with a plane, but that day is not today. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
Extra extra sharp plane. Or fine edge scraper. If these are not in your tool box than sanding is probably safest. |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
Todd Stock wrote: A sharp, well set, well set up block plane. Never an issue with a sharp LN block. Angles, etc. are secondary...sharp is the key. All my planes are pretty much antiques. I spent a lot of time truing them, removing oxidation and sharpening the blades down to 2000 grit. Most are Stanley and Millers Falls. I have a thing for old hand tools. It seemed fine at first, but I was using a #4 Stanley. Maybe it dulled after a few passes? I'll give it a shot with the block plane after honing the blade. Somagyi's book says to plane hard woods across the grain. Is highly figured wood the exception? |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
Tom West wrote: Joey: I assume this is an inlayed rosette....? Why not try a card scraper and/or abrasives. Tom Yes it is inlayed. I do have scrapers and abrasives but the abrasives are just not fast enough. I was getting the result that I wanted with a plane- until the tear out. I've been hesitant to give it another go. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
As you probably know, make your dept of cut very shallow. Paper thin or thinner shavings
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
Rod True wrote: As you probably know, make your dept of cut very shallow. Paper thin or thinner shavings I'll give that a shot. I was pretty shallow to begin with (at least in my mind I was  ). I think what happened was one of the corners of the blade caught the maple because the plane jerked to one side when the tear out happened. I though about rounding the edges off very slightly but wouldn't that just give me a dull portion of blade? Am I over thinking this or should I just go extremely slow/thin and with the grain?
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
I should also mention that the grains of the mahogany/ebony/maple/ebony/mahogany rosette are all in line and about 45 degrees in relation to the grain of the adirondack top. There is enough runout in the top to cause tear out in the spruce if planed the wrong way to deeply as well. I sure know how to make things hard on myself!  Anyways outside of salvaging the top, I hope to chalk this up to one bug nightmare of a learning experience! |
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| Author: | cphanna [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
Joey, based on what you have written, I think I would try a card scraper. And I wouldn't file and burnish the edge. I'd HONE the edge on a fine stone--the narrow edge of the scraper, and both flats on either side--and then turn the hook with a burnisher, before I tackled this. I'd go for the finest, sharpest edge I could muster. A honed edge probably won't last as long as a filed edge, but it'll sure cut cleanly. Give it a try. Good luck with it. As always, post some pics when you've finished so we can all see how it comes out. We all learn from each other's experiences. Patrick |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
If you still have a long way to go, you could try shaving it down with a chisel (bevel side down) before switching to scraper. I can usually do better that way than with a plane, although it does still take a while, due to the danger of slipping and jabbing the top. |
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| Author: | Daniel Minard [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
As mentioned by others, sharp is the key, whether you are using a plane or a scraper. I received a note from Brian Burns this week with a link to his new sharpening video. If you aren't set on a sharpening system yet, Brian's approach may be just the thing. Check it out! http://www.planetarypegs.com/doublebeve ... _page.html At first glance, his system looks a bit cumbersome, but if you watch the vid though to the end you may be convinced. Sure can't argue with his results, especially in figured woods. |
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| Author: | chinito [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
I agree with Todd with regards to using a block plane, followed by a honed scraper. Often with figured and generally cranky grain a high cutting angle is effective: A secondary bevel at about 50 degrees for low angle planes and a back bevel on Bailey style planes. This makes the cut like a cross between a scraping and shearing action. The result is a plane that is slightly harder to move, but wood fibres that fail before they have a chance to tear out. Pair the high angle with closing the throat of your plane as much as possible without shavings clogging the mouth. With regards to rounding the corners of your plane iron, try cambering it instead. This can be done with select finger pressure in the corners of the blade during sharpening and results in a subtle arc to the cutting edge. This arc allows you to center the shavings in the mouth of the tool. In use the corners remain just below the surface of the plane's sole. Yes the plane is not cutting its full width, but the loss is minimal and there's no longer any risk of the corners catching. Check the writings of Christopher Scwarz for a complete rundown on setting up different cambers for specific planing tasks. Great stuff for us hand tool geeks. -Jake. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
2,000 G isn't that fine. I think you will see improvements if you go to a finer grit and strop. With figured Maple I often plane across the grain ie. in the direction of the flame. |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
i think that 2000 may be not that sharp either. i usually stop on a 5000 Naniwa, but go to 8000 when i have the patience. Also, maybe it´s worth to invest on new blades for your stanleys (i don´t know about millers falls, but my old stanley irons are just too thin for a figured hardwood, at least with my technique) good luck, miguel. |
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| Author: | SteveCourtright [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
Michael.N. wrote: 2,000 G isn't that fine. I think you will see improvements if you go to a finer grit and strop. With figured Maple I often plane across the grain ie. in the direction of the flame. I agree - my fine stone is 8000... |
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| Author: | banjopicks [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
I'm glad someone finally said that. I use 2000 Wet or Dry sandpaper plus a few swipes with gold rouge on leather that I got at Wood Craft. I get an absolute mirror finish. Can't imagine needing anything sharper. Todd Stock wrote: If we are talking 2000 Wet or Dry, that's fine enough...the edge will be nearly as sharp as an 8000 grit waterstone. If we are talking 2000 on a waterstone, you need to go at least to 4000 for a reasonable polish.
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
banjopicks wrote: I'm glad someone finally said that. I use 2000 Wet or Dry sandpaper plus a few swipes with gold rouge on leather that I got at Wood Craft. I get an absolute mirror finish. Can't imagine needing anything sharper. Todd Stock wrote: If we are talking 2000 Wet or Dry, that's fine enough...the edge will be nearly as sharp as an 8000 grit waterstone. If we are talking 2000 on a waterstone, you need to go at least to 4000 for a reasonable polish. Yep I'm using wet/dry paper and the scary sharp method per Todd's tutorial. |
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| Author: | Ian Cunningham [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
Veritas honing compound on some leather has given me excellent results with figured woods. Set the plan iron to take the smallest shaving imaginable, and plane with the grain. Scrapers are a good alternative to this too, and I usually prefer to use them in these cases. Just make sure you have the burr you want before going at it. Test on scrap etc. |
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| Author: | John Bartley [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
Not a luthier, just a hobbyist woodworker here.....when jointing or planing highly figured wood (with power equipment), it sometimes gives a better result if the surface is slightly moistened with water to soften the fibres a bit. There is less tearout with the moist wood. Any chance that this approach might work in this case? Just a thought.... cheers John |
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| Author: | Carey [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
Stropping removes the burr, which is a good thing, but not a substitute for 1) having a solid blade bed, 2) a properly conditioned plane sole, and 3) a fine edge proper, which can be gotten many ways, listed above. Paying close attention to the effort needed to push/pull the plane will tell you much. In softer woods, sharpness matters more (generally) than sole condition; in harder woods the opposite. |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
I'm as fond of nice sharp planes as the next guy, but unless your rosette is way higher than the soundboard, a scraper or even sand paper on a firm block should be enough to get it level very quickly. Not to mention a drum sander... |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
95% of the time, I do this job with a scraper. |
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| Author: | Ken Franklin [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Planing flamed maple |
Arnt Rian wrote: I'm as fond of nice sharp planes as the next guy, but unless your rosette is way higher than the soundboard, a scraper or even sand paper on a firm block should be enough to get it level very quickly. Not to mention a drum sander... +1 I was trying to think of a good way to say exactly that and now I don't have to. |
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