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Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=32918		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  GregG [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
I've been trying to follow the discussions on CITES as it relates to Cocobolo and figure out if there are going to be potential problems with shipping a completed Cocobolo guitar out of the USA......Any thoughts/answers about shipping a Cocobolo guitar to Canada would be appreciated. I've got one just about completed and wondering if I'm going to be able to ship it up there.

Thanks,
Greg
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
Don't take my word for it, but since it is not on CITES 1 (yet) you do not need to worry.
Author:  dberkowitz [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
Dalbergia retusa is CITES listed in Appendix III, but restricted to only finished products -- log, lumber, sawn wood, and veneer are prohibited because of annotations to the listing. If your guitar has even one piece of shell, you need either a FWS license or you need to submit in advance of shipment FWS form 3-177, declaring all the shell by latin name, country of origin (i.e., where it was harvested). The fee is $91, and must be submitted along with the form and be approved prior to shipment. It can take 60+ days to get approval.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
Isn't the problem coming into the country, not going out? That said, there would be issues at the receiving country with their laws regarding CITES, no?
I'm actually totally confused on this, maybe someday it'll be clear to me, but I doubt it :?
Author:  GregG [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
David, are you saying that a completed guitar made with Cocobolo is OK to ship to other countries? I also hear you saying that shell is another more difficult issue? Thankfully no shell on these guitars.....Come to think of it, I have another Cocobolo guitar scheduled for Scotland.

Thanks,
Greg
Author:  TonyKarol [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
Cites specifically says - Dalbergai retusa, population of Guatamala, and it is then noted for logs, lumber and veneer ... so what does that mean for coco from other countries ??? ... it is also harvested in Belize ...
Author:  dunwell [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
NAMM has a group that is keeping track of all this stuff and trying to translate and advocate for us mere mortals. Go to their web site of namm.org and do a search for "lacey" or just go to
http://www.namm.org/search/node/lacey
to read up on it a bit. Join the group if you want to keep up on it. Lots of layers on layers with multiple agencies all cross charged with tending all this. Not quite to the same level as air travel with colonoscopys at the airport yet but...

Alan D.

Update - just found this direct link to the Taskforce signup
http://www.namm.org/public-affairs/articles/namm-forms-import-export-task-force
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
Jim Watts wrote:
Isn't the problem coming into the country, not going out?
Concerning the Lacey act, yes. Shipping a coco guitar to Canada should not be any problem.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
Laurent, so we're really concerned about two things the Lacey act and CITES, correct?
Author:  GregG [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
Quote:
Shipping a coco guitar to Canada should not be any problem.


Would you think that the same would apply for any country as I have another Coco going to Scotland?

Greg
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
Jim Watts wrote:
Laurent, so we're really concerned about two things the Lacey act and CITES, correct?

GregG wrote:
Would you think that the same would apply for any country as I have another Coco going to Scotland?

CITES is an international agreement. The Lacey act is US legislation. Anything imported in the US should be in accordance with CITES and the Lacey act, anything exported from the US should be accordance with CITES and the country of arrival's legislation, if any. As I understand it…
Author:  Jim Watts [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
Laurent, this is sort of my understanding too, although I suspect you know more about it than I do. So, it seems to me that if a guitar is leaving the US, you need to know what's expected at the destination country. Almost seems impossible to me.
Author:  dberkowitz [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
In order to export a guitar with shell you MUST fill out a FWS 3-177. If you do not apply for a FWS license, every time you ship out of the country, you're going to have to send in the form at least 60 days prior to shipment in order to guarantee that you'll get the export permit in time. It takes at least 60 days to get the license.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
Thank you David. I suppose shell would mean even one 2mm dot on the side of a fingerboard correct?
Author:  David Newton [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo Guitar Shipped to Canada - Confused
It is now $100.
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