I have Stew-Mac router base and several accessories. Which are all very nice but the weak link seems to be the dremel and it's poor bearing system. What is better out there without jumping up to a laminate triming router?
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| Author: | Greenman [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | alternative to dremel |
| I have Stew-Mac router base and several accessories. Which are all very nice but the weak link seems to be the dremel and it's poor bearing system. What is better out there without jumping up to a laminate triming router?
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| Author: | Alan [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
I have an orange Black & Decker Wizard mounted in my StewMac base and it works well. You might try putting a pice of head shrink tubing over the bearing or wrapping a layer of electrical tape around the bearing to get a better fit in the plastic housing. The bearing on my Dremel was fine, but it has a poor fit in the plastic housing. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
Hi Bill - your question timely for me as I am in the same boat as you. I have the StewMac system, which I really like, but my Dremel wobbles enough that the only way I can cut a reasonably clean rosette channel is to set everything up so I have the very minimum length of the bit extending beyond the collet. Even then I have to count on the channel being wider than the bit. I routed for a rosette yesterday and although it turned out fine, I decided I will not use the Demel again, so I'm interested to know what others are using instead. |
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| Author: | ChuckB [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
Proxxon makes a rotary tool about the same size as the dremel. I don't have any experience with the Proxxon, but have read about their products and they claim it has beefy bearings. You will need to modify your Stew Mac base for it to fit though. Maybe soneone else has experience with them. Chuck |
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| Author: | Mark Fogleman [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
Frank Ford has a Dremel bearing repair tutorial here: http://www.frets.com/fretspages/luthier/Tools/DremelBearing/drembear.html |
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| Author: | Greenman [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
| I just looked on Proxxon website and they have a professional model for around $115. It has a 20mm collar to mount in their accessories. They say the bearing are ball bearings and the max runout is .001.http://www.proxxontools.com/store/pc/vi ... 10#details. I wonder how big a deal it would be to open up the router base to 20MM. I think it is thread 1/2 10tpi if my memory is correct. Is there a machinist in the house?
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| Author: | Colin North [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
Dremel thread - "The Dremel tools have two different nose threads. One is 3/4-12 and the other is 3/4-16." - from a CNC forum site. I've been looking at this type of project for when my dremel expires (it's great just now), to replace it with a Proxxon. So above info means it should not be too difficult to drill out the dremel threads to 20 mm and make it into a clamp for the Proxxon. They make a holder for the Proxxon rotary tool, for use in a lathe http://www.axminster.co.uk/proxxon-proxxon-tool-holder-for-rotary-tools-prod793268/ - UK site, but I am sure you can find in the states. Perhaps it could be fitted/adapted for the dremel base to hold the Proxxon. But opening out a dremel router base and clamping the Proxxon in some way sounds a neater solution. |
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| Author: | Greenman [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
| Thanks for all the great input. Haanz sent me photos of his Proxxon with stew-mac base and explained he opened up the base to 20mm by grinding out the threads. I think I would drill it out with a 13/16" drill and drill and tap the base for a set screw. He said he likes the proxxon. No wobble!
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| Author: | DennisK [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
Black & Decker knockoff with the StewMac base works great for me. Cheaper too 
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| Author: | murrmac [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
Remember that the Proxxon rotates at a measly maximum 20,000 RPM. Great for abrasive cut-off wheels, not so great for miniature router bits. |
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| Author: | Scott A [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
Out of my price range but Foredom tools are the bomb! |
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| Author: | weslewis [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
I have the new dremel 4000 and have had no problems on the stewmac base...use it for cutting rosettes and doing inlays...I do have a couple of old ones I use for various other things like a pedipaw on steriods!!! 
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| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
murrmac wrote: Remember that the Proxxon rotates at a measly maximum 20,000 RPM. Great for abrasive cut-off wheels, not so great for miniature router bits. Are you saying that it is too fast or not fast enough. L. |
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| Author: | dunwell [ Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
If you can find them the Black & Decker RTX is a super tool replacement for the Dremel. Good bearings, adjustable speed, etc. They discontinued them so I bought two, keeping one as backup, but I see them on Craigs list and ebay off and on. Alan D. |
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| Author: | Greenman [ Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
Which model is it? There is a RTX-1 on ebay right now is that the same thing- it is variable speed. |
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| Author: | Ed Haney [ Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
FYI. I tried doing some inlay work with my Dremel and its Felx-Shaft accessory. WAY too much wobble. The Dremel by itself is much better, but still not as smooth as I would like. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
Hmm, I can't find any evidence that the RTX has been discontinued. $30 on amazon right now http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-RTX-B-Rotary-Storage/dp/B000MUSLCC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1309976643&sr=8-3 |
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| Author: | dunwell [ Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
DennisK wrote: Hmm, I can't find any evidence that the RTX has been discontinued. $30 on amazon right now http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-RTX-B-Rotary-Storage/dp/B000MUSLCC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1309976643&sr=8-3 Sorry, I wasn't specific enough. The 3-speed model is still available, the variable speed model with higher torque has been discontinued AFAIK. Still, for most folks the 3 speed will work just fine and has bearings not bushings like some of the earlier Dremels. I also use it with a flex shaft to a carving hand-piece and like the variable adjustment for that. That is pushing it's capabilities though when punching out maple, the Foredom is a better driver for that application. Alan D. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
I bought a Taiwanese Foredom clone for about 70 dollars or so. The thing seems to have the exact spec of a Foredom (it probably works Foredom's interchangeable handpiece as well). On the power side it's got quite a bit of power. I bought it subsidized by a customer who wanted me to make wooden letters for her. The only downside is that it came with the H30 type handpiece which only takes up to a 5/32" bit, but I found a H44T type handpiece at the same store I bought it at for only about 25 dollars which can take 1/4" bits. Coupled with a HSS wood carving burr it will chew through wood almost like butter! I think with the Foredom typhoon bit it will be even better at this. The nice thing about that handpiece is that it uses the exact same collet as my Taiwanese laminate trimmer (I suspect it's made by the same manufacturer too) so that means I can use my imperial (1/4" rather than 6mm) for the laminate trimmer with it. I wouldn't buy the Harbor Freight clone because I think it's made in China which means poor quality (chuck falling out, etc.). Most Taiwanese clones are equal in quality to the real thing... just read about all the Rexon or Jepson tools out there and you'll know most people like them (I suspect they make all the tools for Grizzly). One thing about all Foredom type tool is that they have a maximum RPM of about 18,000 so if you want to use really small detailing bit you can either stick with a Dremel (but I hate them... last one I had barely had enough power for power carving tasks, not to mention the bearing isn't that good so there are serious runout issues with it. I would recommend Proxxon but it cost almost as much as a real Foredom) or get the Foredom high speed handpiece that has gears inside which increases its speed twofold. But seriously for the price of the Foredom high speed handpiece you could buy another Dremel... Use Dremel type tools only for small detail carving or high speed polishing, and use the Foredom for power carving. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
There has to be something seriously wrong with Dremel if Harbor Freight's mini grinder is of higher quality than them. Can anyone explain why Dremel has such a lousy quality? |
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| Author: | ballbanjos [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
I use a modified Stew-Mac base to hold an NSK Presto high speed (and very quiet) air powered dental handpiece. They're not cheap, and they won't use standard 1/8" shank bits. But what they will use is much cheaper dental burs. They turn at 320,000 rpm and have virtually zero runout. The high speed makes the NSK ignore any grain issues--it won't follow a soft line in the grain like a slower speed router will. And finally, the NSK doesn't require any oil, so the air that comes out of the tip (and blows the dust away) is dry and oil free. Very nice setup. I also have one of John Hall's routers, and it's very nice. I use it for hogging out material (with the 1/8" shank bits that the NSK won't handle), but it's loud. All in all, pneumatic seems to be the way to go for me. Dave PS--I also use the NSK in a CNC machine for cutting pearl--works great! |
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| Author: | Eric Reid [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
ballbanjos wrote: I use a modified Stew-Mac base to hold an NSK Presto high speed (and very quiet) air powered dental handpiece. They're not cheap, and they won't use standard 1/8" shank bits. But what they will use is much cheaper dental burs. They turn at 320,000 rpm and have virtually zero runout. The high speed makes the NSK ignore any grain issues--it won't follow a soft line in the grain like a slower speed router will. And finally, the NSK doesn't require any oil, so the air that comes out of the tip (and blows the dust away) is dry and oil free. Very nice setup. I also have one of John Hall's routers, and it's very nice. I use it for hogging out material (with the 1/8" shank bits that the NSK won't handle), but it's loud. All in all, pneumatic seems to be the way to go for me. Dave PS--I also use the NSK in a CNC machine for cutting pearl--works great! Thanks for posting, Dave. I don't do much inlay work, but this sounds like the set-up I'll want if I start building steel strings. At 320,000 rpm (wow! really?), I wonder if the tool is really quiet, or just not noticeably loud. 320,000 rpm would be about 5 kHz. Two flutes might generate 11 kHz. Multiple flutes=?. We've all lost most of our hearing above 20kHz, but I'm careful about what I have left. I don't own a Foredom tool, but I used them a lot when I built bicycles. They were pretty handy for grinding brass filets. I imagine they'd be much too slow for inlay work. I'd prefer my laminate trimmer even for rosettes. (A Wells-Karol gizmo is on my list. At present, the Paracho version of the popsicle stick and Exacto knife works well enough.) I agree that the run-out on Dremels is hopelessly bad. I haven't tried Todd's upgrade mods. What hasn't been mentioned is what happens when you put a spiral cut bit in a machine with run-out. I spent an embarrassing number of months wondering why my Dremel sometimes cut an hourglass channel, sometimes a barrel shaped channel, sometimes neither. |
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| Author: | ballbanjos [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
The NSK is almost exactly dentist's drill loud--a normal tone of voice will be heard easily above the noise from the NSK. Way quieter than a die grinder. I wear hearing protection for darned near everything I do in the shop, but the NSK doesn't require it. And yes, it is really running at 300+K RPM. The cutters are spiral end mills--probably 4 flute from what they look like. The one downside to the NSK is that it spins so fast that you'll burn the wood if you're not careful. At 320K, feed rate should be a lot faster than I normally route freehand to get a proper chip cut rate. That said, you can buy dental burs that work great for inlay from Lasko Diamond and others for a fraction of the price of a small carbide endmill, and it can do better work. The NSK handpiece has ceramic bearings (that allow the high RPM) that keep the runout basically unmeasurable, and the requirements on the compressor are just a fraction in terms of PSI and CFM of what a die grinder requires. The last big benefit that John Hall's pneumatic die grinder machines share is that these pneumatic tools are so much lighter and smaller than electric motor based machines--even lighter and smaller than a Foredom handpiece. Very maneuverable. All in all, I would recommend getting one of John's routers and giving higher speed pneumatic routing a try (with hearing protection--it's fairly loud), and then deciding whether the significant additional cost of an NSK is worth trying or not. John's machines are quite reasonably priced and work WAY better than a Dremel as long as you have a compressor that can handle the load. I consider the NSK to be the next step up, but it comes at three times the price. As a sidenote--You mention being careful about the hearing you have left--I've spent most of my life working hard to protect my hearing. I always wear hearing protection when I'm using power tools or a shop vac. I've always worn hearing protection when I run a lawn mower or ride a motorcycle. But about a year ago, I got T-Boned in my car and the side airbag went off in my left ear. Never stopped to think about hearing protection when driving a car....Everything through my left ear sounds like a kazoo now. The sound is there, as is most of the frequency response, but it's really nasty distorted. Airbags are probably good things all in all, but when one goes off in your ear, it's about like having an M-80 inside of headphones. Very violent. Dave |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
If you wear hearing protection on a motorcycle, how do you hear important things like another car coming at you, children, etc? Back on topic, can someone recommend me a burr that I can use to smooth out carvings I have made with a fluted burr? I tried the sanding drum burr but all it really does is carve slower, yet its still no more smooth than the fluted burr in terms of surface evenness. I would have to do it by hand but it's really tedious, and the surface is too tight for a palm sander to get into. |
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| Author: | ballbanjos [ Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: alternative to dremel |
Tai Fu wrote: If you wear hearing protection on a motorcycle, how do you hear important things like another car coming at you, children, etc? Brief off topic, but important--it's actually easier to hear what's going on around you when you take away the wind noise. A set of custom fit earplugs is great whether on a bike or in the shop. Dave |
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