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| Sinker redwood, how splitty? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=32678 |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
I ordered a couple tops recently (not here yet) and while reading about the stuff, it seems to pop out often that it splits easily. How easily is that in fact? I build classicals...a dense top can end up at 0.08 in thickness, and I also use a very pronounced dome, of about 15' or so. I hope it is not going to split when gluing the braces! 
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
It tends to split when flexing cross grain .. long grain is fine ... handle gently, it will brace up fine, and then you are good to go. |
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| Author: | Edzard [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
Alexandru Marian wrote: I ordered a couple tops recently (not here yet) and while reading about the stuff, it seems to pop out often that it splits easily. How easily is that in fact? I build classicals...a dense top can end up at 0.08 in thickness, and I also use a very pronounced dome, of about 15' or so. I hope it is not going to split when gluing the braces! Hello Alexandru, I ordered 5 pieces. When they arrived I took one out for flexing it (only a little bit) and it broke in two pieces. After a while I used one for a steelstring. Got the rosette in, then glued the purflings around it with CA. I sealed everything (twice) with shellac. Stains everywhere.Through the top away. Yesterday I took the third piece, put in a (very nice burl) rosette. Glued it with Fish glue. No stains. Then to the saw, during sawing I slipped and fel with my elbow on the top...it broke in two. Maybe someone up there is trying to tell me not to use redwood... Best regards, Edzard |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
Thanks everyone. Edzard, if that is any consolation, I suppose even the hardest spruce would have split after an elbow impact. Well seems I need to keep my fingers crossed! I'll see how they pass the offcut test. For every top I saw off about an inch of endgrain and split in many pieces. Helps finding weak grains and getting the "feel of the wood" |
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| Author: | David Newton [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
I too have been afraid of splitting Redwood, because it IS fragile, but the instruments that I've used it on, once together, have been fine after many years, and the tone is worth it. |
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| Author: | Dave Fifield [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
I've ruined a couple of sinker redwood sets by taking them too thin. As the others have said, it's not so strong across the grain. You will not be able to get your top anywhere near 0.08" IMO. I would stop at 0.115" and brace appropriately. YMMV. Good luck! Dave F. |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
Thanks guys. I am going to try the thickest top/lightest bracing scheme I can come with, although something like 0.115 might be way too heavy. Will see how the actual top behaves. Factoring in the guitar size, I would say a 0.08-0.085 classical spruce top is about the same as a .105-.11 Dread top. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
I don't have much Redwood, and have only built with it twice, but I believe it's alot stronger/stable/less likely to split if it's prefectly quartered. I (think I) read somewhere that it's more prone to split if it isn't dried correctly.........maybe dried too fast???? |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
I ordered from Rick, and they seem to be pretty well quartered, as there is long silk visible in the photos here and there. I should have them in a week or so and I will return with a report. |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
sorry for the (dumb?) question, but what is sinker redwood? redwook that has been sank? thanks, miguel. |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
thanks for the detailed (and quick!) reply Filippo. so it just happened by chance that some logs sank? here (portugal, EU) some loggers keep their wood for some years in rivers (mainly white oak, i believe), saying that it turns the wood "better" (which i translated at the time as "stronger" or "more durable"), but i thought it could be just a case of wishful thinking. do you know if this is done with other woods (that is, woods used in guitar making)? thanks, miguel. |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
There is quite an industry of reclaiming logs that were floated to mills. Many are not only on the bottom of rivers, but sunk in mud where the rivers have changed their direction over the years. Old growth pine that has been reclaimed is much saught after. I would think that there must be sitka spruce reclaimed the same way in British Columbia as well. Maybe someone else knows for sure. Alex |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
I just got my two soundboards. It doesn't really seem much worse than WRC in terms of hardness and splitting. On the other hand they are quite very heavy, one at 450Kg/m3 (7.37 grams/cubic inch) the other 490 (8grams). The 450 is also stiffer. Both are well quartered, with lots of silk. The heavy one has the rings so tight you can't count them. I am thinking I could make an all-redwood guitar and use the heavy piece for the back, if I could get some long stock for sides somewhere. Hmmm. |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
Hi Alexandru, could you tell me where you got the tops from? and how do they tap? it looks nice... cheers, (a curious) miguel. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
What Tony said! I had a top 1/2 split on flexing it cross grain just as Tony says. TonyKarol wrote: It tends to split when flexing cross grain .. long grain is fine ... handle gently, it will brace up fine, and then you are good to go.
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| Author: | oval soundhole [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
Alexandru Marian wrote: I am thinking I could make an all-redwood guitar and use the heavy piece for the back, if I could get some long stock for sides somewhere. Hmmm. Or you could get some rosewood sides and try out a kasha style like this Boaz/Majkowski ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") http://www.dreamguitars.com/detail/1739-boaz_majkowski_kashaschneider_concert_guitar_lisa_5/ |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
Miguel, From here: http://www.luthierscooltools.com/Sinker_Gallery.htm The tap tone is very nice, low damping and resonant like WRC, but a bit more restrained, and I suppose this is because of the weight. Because of the same weight, I would not recommend this stuff for a classical, unless you ask them to pick one which is noticeably light (and wide grained maybe). I picked a couple based on looks (uniform enough) and were not too big and pricey... Oval, Thanks! Rosewood might be. In fact I used a lighter brown orangeish type of Madagascar rw before that might work just fine. Perhaps bending sinker or redwood in general is not a great idea, not to mention later issues because of the fragility... |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sinker redwood, how splitty? |
thanks for the info! i wish you good luck with your future sinker endeavours! edit: BTW, that kasha looks awesome, but i imagine - even considering mr. Heumiller remarks - that it should be difficult to play in the eupper frets... i mean, those are really up! |
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