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Cedar insight wanted
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=32512		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  jm2 [ Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Cedar insight wanted
I am curious to know more about Cedar. I have only heard of Western red cedar in the context of guitar tops, and I am wondering, are there other species of cedar used for guitars? If so, what are they? Any other general observations on cedar would be appreciated.
Author:  Mark Groza [ Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar insight wanted
Makes a nice top on a walnut bodied guitar.
Author:  mqbernardo [ Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar insight wanted
cedar is a name used for different species. from the top of my head:

the one that is used for tops (the most) is western red cedar, thuja plichata (which is not a true cedar).

alaskan yellow cedar (Callitropsis nootkatensis, also not a "true" cedar) is sometimes used for backs and sides. i´m waiting for my first set of these, to try to build my first flamenco.

port orford cedar (again, not a true cedar : chamaeciparis lawsoniana), some folks here have built with it (both backs and sides and also tops, IIRC).

honduras / spanish cedar (actually a broadleaf tree, cedrela odorata ) used for necks, mostly in classical guitars

lebanese cedar (actually a true cedar, from the genus Cedrus: Cedrus libani) i know of some builders that use it for necks in spanish guitars.

hope this helps,
miguel.
Author:  Lewis_Brittain [ Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar insight wanted
I've only used Cedar once and found it to be brittle but soft at the same time. It dents very easily so be careful when using go-bar decks. I had a bar pop out and dent the inside of my top [headinwall]. It steamed out though so alls well.

One very noticeable thing about my top was that along the grain (so length wise) it was incredibly stiff. This could have just been my piece though as I know stiffness great differ greatly from piece to piece.

My classical sounds very warm and has a smooth tone which I put it down to the Cedar top.

Lewis
Author:  jm2 [ Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar insight wanted
Thanks for the replies. Miguel, I get a kick out of your signature :- ) It is interesting to know that the majority of Cedars used for guitars are not true Cedars. Do we know which cedar is the strongest, or has the highest stiffness to weight ratio? Can Lebanese Cedar be obtained from any wood suppliers? It sounds hard to come by, but it holds particular interest to me, so I would be grateful to learn of any stock out there.
Author:  mqbernardo [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar insight wanted
jm2 wrote:
Thanks for the replies. Miguel, I get a kick out of your signature :- ) It is interesting to know that the majority of Cedars used for guitars are not true Cedars. Do we know which cedar is the strongest, or has the highest stiffness to weight ratio? Can Lebanese Cedar be obtained from any wood suppliers? It sounds hard to come by, but it holds particular interest to me, so I would be grateful to learn of any stock out there.



re: signature - you do? the other day i just remembered i had it and thought that maybe it could be a bit offensive. i got to remember and change it someday.


as for (true) lebanese cedar, i don´t have much info about it, but here it goes: it´s a low-to-medium stiffness wood, IIRC, not too heavy, not too light: around 550 - 560 g/cm3 are the values normally found in the literature. from the book "the encyclopaedia of wood", it has a high resin content and it´s not thus a nice wood for stream bending; it has low resistance to shock and crushing and moderate blunting effect on tools.

here, where i live (Portugal) and around the mediterranean it´s a rather common (almost conspicuous) street and garden tree, as it tolerates well some air pollution. it´s one of my favourite trees as far as looks go, and i´m curious about your interest in it. together with lebanese cedar, the genus cedrus also includes the hymalayan cedar (C. deodara), and - to some authors - the atlantic or atlas cedar (C. atlantica) and the cyprus cedar (C. brevifolia). the jury is still out as to whether the later two are species of cedar or just variants (subspecies) of the lebanese cedar. all of them have the characteristic fragant smell.

more important than this, though, is the fact that all but the deodar cedars tend to be very knotty and to find a piece of wood suitable for neck wood one has to go for the "wild" cedars that are present on the slopes of high but not too cold mountains; these tend to grow in groups and are much taller than their lowlands cousins - this is what angel benito aguado, from Madrid, has told me and i am just passing the info.



hope this helps,
Miguel.
Author:  jm2 [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar insight wanted
Yes, such info is helpful. Thanks. I am intrigued by Lebanese Cedar because like the idea of using woods that were recorded as being used in the days of antiquity.
Author:  mqbernardo [ Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar insight wanted
ok, i see... indeed ancient it is! good luck with your quest.

cheers,
Miguel.
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