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Need cutaway help!!
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Author:  jonah5 [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Need cutaway help!!
Hi. I'm working on an OM, with an unplanned Florentine cutaway (plan B---plan A was for a venetian but the side cracked at upper bout). Anyway, I just finished gluing up the top so I now have a completed, still-unbound box; the problem is when I checked the cutaway a little closer, it looks like I made the fingerboard part of the cutaway too wide; i.e. with the fingerboard attached, the cutaway will stick out about 1/4" , maybe even 3/8" away from the fb. Do you think this is unacceptably wide, and if not, what can I do to minimize the mistake? This guitar is just for myself/kids. Thanks for any advice!
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need cutaway help!!
Well, it's going to look really different that's for sure. Not only will the fretboard stick out but the upper portion of the neck heal as well. You are lossing support at that corner of the neck heal (just under the fretboard) which might be a structural problem.

As far as fixing it goes, you'd have to remove the back and top, remove the cutaway side piece, shim the neck block on the cutaway side, then rebend the side piece, you'll have to make the back wider by adding a piece of off cut, as well as doing the same with the top, then put all pieces back on..... Either that or make a wedge shape that will cover under the fretboard and glue it to the inside cutaway side.....it won't be seemless but you could add a piece of binding where the seam between the original side and the new grafted piece is about 1-1/2" in from the front edge of the body I'm guessing....I can picture it in my head but don't have a picture of what I'm getting at.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need cutaway help!!
Rod, I believe he has the opposite problem if I read his post correctly, which is for the good.
Jonah, am I right in understanding that there will be more 'ledge' beside the cutaway than you'd like? As in the neck joint area extends 1/4-3/8" before the mitre joint at the cutaway?
If so, that's not really a problem at all. Some like to make it flush with FB, some don't. There's no hard fact right or wrong, just preference.
However, if you would like to lessen that ledge, you can always cheat on the centerline a bit. Place the FB where you like and mark on the soundhole where the center of the fb is. Then take a straightedge and draw a line from the center of your butt joint and connect it to the new location of the fb center and use that as your centerline. The strings will be slightly closer to one side of the soundhole than the other, but if you're keeping it, who cares?
Author:  jonah5 [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need cutaway help!!
Perhaps I wasn't very clear with my post about the problem. The upper part of the soundbox is wide enough to fully support the fingerboard and heel-and that's where the problem is: it's too wide. Imagine a Taylor cutaway guitar where the cutaway corner sticks out about 1/8" from the fingerboard edge...in my case, it's more like 1/4" or so. So my question is would this be aesthetically too far out there and if so, what can I do (without opening up the box) to make it look nicer. Thanks again.
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need cutaway help!!
A picture would help, but if it i as I imagine, you want to move the neck towards the cutaway, correct? If so, it is just a matter of tweaking the neck joint; if have a tenon / mortise of some sort you can glue an appropriately thick shim to one side of the tenon, and chisel off the same amount of the other side, and you're there.
Author:  John Mayes [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need cutaway help!!
Arnt Rian wrote:
A picture would help, but if it i as I imagine, you want to move the neck towards the cutaway, correct? If so, it is just a matter of tweaking the neck joint; if have a tenon / mortise of some sort you can glue an appropriately thick shim to one side of the tenon, and chisel off the same amount of the other side, and you're there.


You could do that, but then either your going to be offcenter, or you're going to have a neck that is at a "funny" angle lookswise. Not to mention the smaller things like having the middle joint of the back hit the heel in the center ect...

I say just leave it with the extra bit hanging out there. It's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world and I've seen guitars like this before. It feels and looks much nicer to be smooth right there, but it is what it is now.

Or you can make a 7 string with a wide fretboard and call it a day :P
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need cutaway help!!
Ah, I was picturing it wrong.

If he changes the center line of the neck, he will also be changing the location in which the bridge wings will pass over the x-brace, might not have planned for that.

So, you mean that it will look just like a Larrivee cutaway? You'll be fine, they are about 1/4" offset from the neck/fretboard edge.

Image
Author:  John Mayes [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need cutaway help!!
Rod True wrote:
Ah, I was picturing it wrong.

If he changes the center line of the neck, he will also be changing the location in which the bridge wings will pass over the x-brace, might not have planned for that.

So, you mean that it will look just like a Larrivee cutaway? You'll be fine, they are about 1/4" offset from the neck/fretboard edge.

Image


That's what I was envisioning his problem is too. Like I said I've seen it done this way. It is a cop out imo in that while it makes it easy and mindless to do it rather defeats the purpose of a well done cutaway. The point is to be unobtrusive, not sticking out to give your hand something else to contend with. My advice still is just let it be for this one and chalk it up as lesson learned. That is unless for some odd reason you're selling it to someone then it must be redone correctly.
Author:  jonah5 [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need cutaway help!!
Wow! That Larrivee really does have a wide ledge-I'm a little surprised to see that on a well-known brand! Thanks for the picture; that's exactly how my guitar will look, +/- on the ledge width. Now I don't feel so bad about it. Even so my goal with the next one is for the cutaway to be flush with the fb...lesson learned. Thanks again!
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need cutaway help!!
Well, you have to weigh the arguments and implications against each other, only you can decide which you think is most important...
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need cutaway help!!
I've done cut outs in both styles and I actually prefer the one as pictured above. I like to see thin line of spruce and some decorative binding run along the fretboard. It's just an aesthetic that I prefer. It is definitely NOT a cop out and it doesn't even come close to touching the hand unless you got some really weird technique.

I say fugetabout it. Next guitar if you want to try the flush joint then just be more careful ;)
Author:  John Mayes [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need cutaway help!!
jfmckenna wrote:
...It is definitely NOT a cop out ...



Fair enough. We all have an opinion.. I still stand by mine.
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need cutaway help!!
I'm with John on that one.
I can (mildly, with an effort…) understand Larrivee doing it this way because of production issues (saving time, thus money), but for a hand builder it's not rocket science to have the cutaway and fretboard flush.
BTW a lot of players (all the ones I know including myself) hate that ledge, it doesn't feel or look right, and yes it impedes the left hand for some positions.
Back to the OP: if you want to be adventurous you could unglue side, top and back just enough to have access to the cutaway, and trim the side of your neck block until it follows the fretboard. Then glue everything back together. It could be a good learning experience. Take measurements before you do it on your fretboard and give yourself .020" - .040" of leeway.
Moving the centreline of the neck strikes me as a bad idea: nothing will line up, from the rosette/fretboard to the back centre/heel cap.
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