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cutaway off-set distance from neck
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=32466		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Heath Blair [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  cutaway off-set distance from neck
ive noticed some cutaways are off-set some small distance from the necks edge, while others ramp right onto the same plane as the neck/fingerboard. the former seems easier to pull off as it gives you some wiggle room when aligning the neck, however, the latter looks much better to my eye. what methods do you use and why?
Author:  ChuckB [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cutaway off-set distance from neck
I like the edge of the fingerboard flush with the side. Looks better to me and feels better. Disadvantage is that the body must vary to the fingerboard size, and one must take extra care to keep everything lined up.

Chuck
Author:  DennisK [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cutaway off-set distance from neck
Well, considering I haven't built one yet, technically none of them.

But I'm very picky that there is no corner poking out beside the 14th fret. And on top of that, even a corner poking out beside the heel is mildly irritating from an aesthetic point of view. Three ways I know to solve it...

First, match the headblock shape to the heel taper, and twist the side to fit onto it. Still a little funky looking:
Attachment:
cutaway-back.jpg


Second, use a square heel, so it fits flush to the vertical edge of the cutaway. I like this one as long as the heel isn't overly massive and chunky looking as a result (such as a half circle shape... it's just too big). Ervin Somogyi's rounded rectangle shape is the best I've seen of this, and has the heel-to-shaft transition curve very close to the body to boot (a feature I like on cutaway guitars, because it allows bar chords at higher frets, since you can get your thumb on the back of the neck higher up). Here's a chunky heel, and Somogyi's rectangular one:
Attachment:
CLAXTON_008.jpg

Attachment:
heel.jpg


Third, and my favorite, is to use an integral headblock, expose part of the side of it, and carve a smooth transition from the vertical cutaway side to the angled and curved heel side:
Attachment:
CordobaHeel.jpg
Author:  WudWerkr [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cutaway off-set distance from neck
Thanks dennis , I kinda like the third one as well.
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cutaway off-set distance from neck
I like a seamless transition from the side to a graceful heel. It's harder to do though, so if this is your first you might want to stick to a wider heel and a straight transition.
Author:  Tim L [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cutaway off-set distance from neck
Dennis,

I like that 3rd, or last, example also. How would one go about doing a neck reset on an integral neck like that? I've done the middle examples and right now that is my preferred method for a steel string, but must admit the 3rd one looks pretty cool.

Tim
Author:  DennisK [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cutaway off-set distance from neck
Tim L wrote:
Dennis,

I like that 3rd, or last, example also. How would one go about doing a neck reset on an integral neck like that? I've done the middle examples and right now that is my preferred method for a steel string, but must admit the 3rd one looks pretty cool.

Tim

Well, the goal is that you don't. Use various structure beefing methods to minimize deformation, especially close to the neck joint where small angular differences make a big impact at the bridge, and hope the bridge area itself never pulls up high enough to need a reset.

But if you do have to, then with that sort of heel shape, pretty much your only option is the slipped heel reset. Unglue the binding and back plate out to around the first back brace, crank the neck back to the desired angle, sand/shim the headblock if needed to mate with the back at the new angle, glue it all back together, rerout the binding channels now that there's an overhang of back plate, reglue binding, and repair finish. French polish is definitely advantageous here.

So... if you're a believer that every steel string guitar will need a reset eventually, save yourself a lot of pain and use bolts or dovetail with the flush square heel instead.

Oh, and that guitar in the picture is a factory nylon string. It's also a very shallow body, which looks especially nice with that heel style. Here's my own curvy integral heel shape on a normal depth body, which I think will blend well for cutaways, assuming I ever have the guts to try it on something other than a prototype :)
Attachment:
Heel.jpg
Author:  DennisK [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cutaway off-set distance from neck
Ken Franklin wrote:
I like a seamless transition from the side to a graceful heel. It's harder to do though, so if this is your first you might want to stick to a wider heel and a straight transition.

Nice one! I like that better than the twisted side heel I posted. Not so sharp and pointy looking. What kind of neck joint is that, integral headblock or some sort of removable?

I also like the downward curve of the cutaway to soften the point of the horn.

EDIT: Nevermind that. Found the construction photos on your web site showing the body in the mold without a neck attached :) I assume you had to do the final sanding of the cutaway/heel edge after attaching the neck, and will again if you ever reset it?

Maybe I'll give this style a shot, rather than taking the risk of the integral headblock. Not that I mind so much doing the reset procedure myself, but I'd hate for any of them to ever be abandoned after I'm dead.
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cutaway off-set distance from neck
DennisK wrote:
I assume you had to do the final sanding of the cutaway/heel edge after attaching the neck, and will again if you ever reset it?


My cutaway is a bolt on neck with a short tenon and steel inserts. I do the final sanding with the neck attached before I finish. Then I disassemble, finish and buff, and reassemble.
Author:  Heath Blair [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cutaway off-set distance from neck
thanks for the input so far, guys. all of the photos above are elegant examples of what i like, but im not quite sure how to get there. i think what would make the most sense to me at this stage in the learning curve is a square heel, which i like anyway, that sits flush to the cutaway edge. other than some accurate measuring, what is the correct path to get there? pitfalls to avoid? im currently designing a cutaway and it seems like to achieve this, you have to slightly alter the cutaway for differing neck widths and tapers. correct?

this current topic is exactly what im trying to avoid:

http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=32475
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cutaway off-set distance from neck
I do all kind of different nut widths and bridge string spacings, so (almost) each cutaway is different. Accurate measurements are the beginning, take into account your side thickness and some sanding before finishing. I do not do a flush heel except on tilt-necks.
If you do a flush heel the main difficulty will be in keeping side and heel level. As Ken points out (great looking guitar BTW, Tasmanian myrtle?), the only way to do this is to do the final sanding (and trimming I would add) with the neck attached to the body. There is no other way. It is really easy to mess up the profile of the heel as there is little material at the edge with the heel design you want to do.
Some builders opt to finish those cutaway guitars with the neck attached for that very reason. Any tiny discrepancy here will be glaring.
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