Official Luthiers Forum!

That Padma is one interesting dude.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Hey, Padma,

Nothing does it for me like a beautiful 17" archtop jazz guitar. I have followed many of your threads enthusiastically, but this one has me on pins and needles. I am beside myself with anticipation, waiting to see where you go with this one. Please document it thoroughly and keep us updated (as per usual). I am just one of your many fans on this forum, and I will be checking in daily to see how you're doing with it! Lots of others will be watching, too.
GO!!!

Patrick

I wish LMI would carry worm eaten birch back and side sets. I'd love a set. I can't wait for the planer ideas. Moe

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Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

I'm very impressed with the old school re saw, as well as that scorp action. I'm not familiar with using birch as a neck wood. Why not I guess.

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"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.

I can't resaw by hand until I'm fully cured of my "one step in one sitting" habit.

Thanks....

Gibson used birch till about 1940
may guitars and, particularly, mandolins, were made from birch not maple. Gibson would substitute birch when ever they ran out of maple.

Even some Lloyd Loar F-5 mandos and L-5 guitars made from birch, and Gibson's budget line of Kalamazoo instruments were all birch.

It is stable strong and takes a good finish.


blessings
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Birch is also very similar to maple.
IMO........

Wonder how the carve is going.

Thank you for asking.

The back is done, although I may redo it cuz me shudda carved it out of thicker stock for that real voluptuous curve but it is acceptable the way she is...we see.

The top has gotta be the hardest piece of spruce me ever set a blade into....and is about 1/3rd done. Suppose to have it ready to drill out the depth holes by this evening over at my sons shop...him got BIG drill press...but me been pulling off the old man is snoring thing what with all this rain and a fresh batch of black beer.

Even if me do manage to get the holes drilled today....it will probably be end of next week before me get it all scooped out, pics prosessed and up loaded and all the babble written.

Its summer time and even if the plates were read now .... me couldent close the box anyways because of the high humidity.

Besides its summer and me son just found an old downed chestnut tree, so we gotta process it.

blessings

Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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OK.

Here wear me at...final scraping and sanding not done yet.





how me getted there is in the next post cuz first we need some planes

so as promised..

Plane makein time.

These finger planes are a common design, found all over the net.

Stephen Boone makes a nice little one for brace shaving that he sells for a real good price.

Here is me quick and dirty virsion on a brace shaver, a flat bottom and a curved bottom all from one old Nicholson or Black diamond file.

Once you have made these 3, you will know what you need your next ones to be like.

Any wood will work, even a 2 x 4 but I suggest a hard wood like maple, here me using birch cuz me haz a block available, but I have made them from all sorts of woods.




So a chunk of wood, some 1/8 or slightly thicker brass rod and an old Nicholson or Black Diamond bastard file.
Me don't like the new ones as they are much thinner steel

Here is the layout....










cut a center piece slightly thicker than the file width. and two side about 1/8 thick or thicker.

the blade rests on the 45 to 50 degree angle frog block. The other angle don't matter much.

Cut out as in pick, glue up and clean up the squeeze out.




But save the triangular cut outs for reinsertion to prevent blow out when the holes for the rod are drilled.

When dried , cut out each plane.



Lay out of hole is about 1/3 from the top edge and about 70 to 80 degree angle up from the bottom were the 45 degree face of the frog meets the base.







drill hole the size of your rod...me uses 1/8 inch rod.





Band saw out the shapes you like.





Cut brass rod to length. Tap through and file or belt sand off. (don't got any rod, use a nail)



Grind the file into 3 or 4 pieces.Grind one two, quench 3,4, 5. grind one two, quench 3,4,5,6. grind one two, quench 3,4,5,6,7 and so on.
Be very careful not to over heat the file or you loose the temper.







the rabbit plane on the left will be covered in another post.







Or if you want, the file can be annealed, then cut with a hack saw and filed to final blade shape, but not to the final sharpen as a sharp edge will tend to crack when hardened. Harden at about 1500 degrees or cherry red , quenched in oil, . Then to bring it up to R60-62, temper in the oven at 400 degrees for 25 min. and cool slowly. Now do your final sharpening and hone them up. (note: the terms harden and temper are now in the proper order as decreed by Howard Klepper...thanks Howard.)

Then the final sharpening done. Now All thats a hassle so me just grind the hard file nice and slow.






Cut a wedge shape piece and file, carve or belt sand into a cone. Round the top. Drill a hole and insert the cone as a push handle.
Or if you got a lathe ...make a nicer one. In the above pic you will notice that I have stared carving out concaved recesses for me finger.





Shape two file blanks to a flat edged iron and another into a curved iron Grind the edges and a portion of the back and front flat and smooth removing the cross cut teeth of the file. Grind the other end square Sharpen and hone the two straight edge irons. Do not sharpen the curved iron just yet.

Then cut your wedges to hold the irons.
Inset the wedge and iron and test the two brace shavers out.
Tapping on the heal with a small hammer will raise the iron, tapping on the toe will lower it.




Choose one for your curved bottom

First round off the bottom with a rocking back and for forth on the belt sander, then a side to side and then combine the two movements into a circular motion.








Once the bottom is shaped to your liking.

Inset the rough curved blade blank, held in with a wedge and repeat the rocking on the belt sander until the desired profile of the blade is obtained ...then sharpen the blade.

They should look something like this when finished.









Here are some other ones me has made. Note the little hammer made from the end of a truss rod and used for setting the wedge and tapping the blade into the desired position.





So now its on to carving the top plate but not in today's posts. Come back tomorrow, see how me made all these wood shavings...




Summary...go grind up some old files, take a hunk of 2 x 4 and make some plane bodies one evening. Once you have played with them for a bit...you will know exactly what your needs in brace shavers or curved bottom planes are then make them out of more fancier woods.



blessings



Ps: Now don't non of you dudes go be askin me about measurement...the file used in these pics was a 1/2 Black diamond...so scale your measurements accordingly.



suggested links


http://www.violinmaking-planes.com

http://finelystrung.com/2008/08/19/more ... ng-planes/

http://www.studioboone.com/guitars/fingerplane.html

http://www.google.ca/search?q=Krenov+planes&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=GJI&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=U9gITu6UEarniAL7rezfDQ&ved=0CCEQsAQ&biw=1143&bih=671



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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Very nice, Duh. Good stuff.

Couple things:
You switched 'harden' and 'temper'. Just an FYI.
Without an accurate temperature controlled oven, it's easier and probably more accurate to go by color for both the hardening and tempering. Cherry red for the first, light to medium straw for the second. Get the surface smoothed so you can see the temper colors. The scoring on the file makes for places where cracks can start, anyway, but this application doesn't stress them very much. A file will take a good edge as is, but is so hard that the edge can easily chip and fracture. And with a file you could temper without first annealing and hardening, so long as you don't accidentally lose the temper when grinding.

Any book on blacksmithing will cover this for those who are interested. On the other hand, you can avoid all the blacksmithing and buy little plane irons from Japan Woodworker and other sources. Google Krenov planes for more about the construction method. I don't know if he invented them, but his name goes with the method.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

thanks Howard...

me now go back and switch "temper and harden to harden and temper." that way anybody reading this thread will get about as mixed up as me is.

Also thank you for the "official" correct and proper info about tempering and hardening and all that sort of stuff. The loyal fans reading me thread will know that me kinda rough round the edges and quick and dirty in me approach but hey...me builds sound just fine after a few beers. To the rest of this form readers...best not to take me information too cerealy...

So now me gonna take Howards advise and go clean me shop.

blessings
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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[quote="the Padma"
Also thank you for the "official" correct and proper info about tempering and hardening and all that sort of stuff. The loyal fans reading me thread will know that me kinda rough round the edges and quick and dirty in me approach but hey...me builds sound just fine after a few beers. To the rest of this form readers...best not to take me information too cerealy...

blessings
Padma[/quote]

Exsqueeze me, Duh Paddie, but I wish to claim the quick and dirty ground here. It wuzn't me that gave the exact temperatures and you that gave the 'just look at the colors', buddy. Au contraire. Vice versa. Hey, look at those colors (BTW)!

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Ok.

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Thanks padma for the little planer tutorial. Hopefully i'll figure it out.

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Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

Makes me want to build some planes and build an archtop weissey-heimer.
Maybe after the tenor weiss?
Hmmmmmmmmmm.

I thought Padma's "PS: Take the Red pill." sig line was a reference to the film "The Matrix" (a place of mind where one's reality is questionable). Is this not so?

Dave F.

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Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

I think its from alice in wonderland or the song from jefferson airplane, white rabbit; or both.

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Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

and the 3 points go to David for the words spoken by Morpheus in the Matrix flick
"You take the blue pill – the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill – you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."

Sorry Jason, the Alice charater by Charles Lutwidge Dodgson (aka Lewis Caroll) and the Jefferson Airplanes, well she was a shroom head.

So Davie wins this round of BS.

blessings
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Hey, cool broom!

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Thanks Howard,

Iron wood handle...was hand made by dis old broom maker just for me, is 36 years old.
Just like you say Howard, when all else fails, me use it to clean me shop with. Maybe if me remembers me post pic of its short brother.

blessings

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Ummm...dis here build has been side tracked till all me black beer has been drunk which should be a few more days...stay tuned.


blessings
drunk Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Padma - you are one amazing cat!

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Gee Chris ...daz just what me first 4 wives use to think.

one quart to go...should be sober by the morning


blessings
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Padma, would you adopt me as your son?

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"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins