Official Luthiers Forum!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Mold or no mold
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=32190		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  segovia [ Fri May 13, 2011 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Mold or no mold
I must confess that then idea of building without a mold does not seem practical as most instruction methods teach with the use of a mold. I have re visited Campiano's book recently and I had forgotten he does not use one. given that you can spend a lot of time, effort and timber building different molds can regular building without one be sustainable ?

J
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri May 13, 2011 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
Don't see why not, especially if you get your sides bent really accurately. Help yourself even more by using solid kerfings. (ahem)
Author:  StevenWheeler [ Fri May 13, 2011 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
Timley question John, I just had a discussion on this topic last Saturday with another builder. He has been repairing, restoring and constructing stringed insturments for about 30 years and does not have a single mold. He did say he was thinking about giving an adjustable mold a try.

Steve
Author:  DennisK [ Fri May 13, 2011 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
No molds for me, but my boxes come out slightly asymmetrical and sides not perfectly vertical. I hope it doesn't affect the stability, but I rather like the uniqueness of each one.

If I wanted to get them precise, I would go with the adaptable mold style (solera with dowels bolted to it around the pattern). Definitely want to avoid the material use, storage space, and difficulty of creating solid molds if I can, since I like having the freedom to design new shapes every time (even if just minor tweaks to the curves of an old shape to give it a different style).
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Fri May 13, 2011 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
segovia wrote:
I must confess that then idea of building without a mold does not seem practical as most instruction methods teach with the use of a mold. I have re visited Campiano's book recently and I had forgotten he does not use one. given that you can spend a lot of time, effort and timber building different molds can regular building without one be sustainable ?

J


It is for me.
Author:  bluescreek [ Sat May 14, 2011 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
I find free building very difficult to control neck block position and symetry. I won't even think about building without a mold. It assures position of the neck block so I can control the neck angle position . I know that a few old schooled may still free build but not many. This video may help show why a mold is a big advantage .
I cannot speak for Howard but for me , one the set is locked on the mold I do not take it out until it is a body . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYHPCeVRUA4
There are more than one way to do things but this works for me .
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Sat May 14, 2011 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
For the time it takes to make a mold it can save a lot of time later in the build spent lining things up. I especially appreciate the mold when sanding top and back radius shapes with a dish. I also glue on the top and back while in the mold in my gobar deck and remove the inside spacers through the sound hole after the box is closed. This keeps the sides straight to the top and back and making binding routing easier.

Fred
Author:  Chris Ensor [ Sat May 14, 2011 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
Mold is bad. You really don't want to live in it, eat it, breathe it. Pretty much a bad idea. laughing6-hehe
Author:  Daniel Minard [ Sat May 14, 2011 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
I'm with John on this one. I even build molds for restorations, where the top or back are being removed. If only to keep the heel block firmly positioned, I find it's worth the time spent.
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Sat May 14, 2011 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
Building "mouldless" is not that much more difficult, keeping the blocks & sides square seems relatively mundane compared to other guitar building tasks. The sides need to be more precisely bent perhaps, but even with a mould they should not be a forced fit.
The main advantage I see in not using a mould is the relative freedom it affords in terms of design and construction: "new" plantillas just need a 1/2" template, or no template at all if one is adventurous.
Author:  bluescreek [ Sat May 14, 2011 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
Being one that teaches a lot of classes I have seen the frustration of new builders trying to build free form with poor results . Most experienced free builders are more into the classical where the spanish style of neck system is used and have used the system so they are familiar with it . There is a lot of geometry going on and the mold allows that to be precisely controlled .
Author:  Hupaand [ Sat May 14, 2011 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
Quote:
if you get your sides bent really accurately

That's a big 'if' in my shop. I still try from time to time without a mold.
Author:  crich [ Sun May 15, 2011 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
My neck angle is set by the workboard. idunno I ,too, like to build "formless" for new ideas or shapes, and like someone said, the trick is bending your sides well. You then only have to profile and attach the back. I saw a video of Froggy Mountain Guitars building with no forms, I guess some just get used to doing it that way. Clinton
Author:  John Coloccia [ Mon May 16, 2011 6:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
crich wrote:
My neck angle is set by the workboard. idunno I ,too, like to build "formless" for new ideas or shapes, and like someone said, the trick is bending your sides well. You then only have to profile and attach the back. I saw a video of Froggy Mountain Guitars building with no forms, I guess some just get used to doing it that way. Clinton


It shouldn't surprise you that Michael Millard came out of Gurian's shop, as did Cumpiano.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon May 16, 2011 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
I used to use a mold but I don't anymore. I just like the simplicity and freedom of building on an open work board.
Author:  the Padma [ Mon May 16, 2011 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
Me build a mold for this 17inch cutaway arch top me building for this Chilean currendaro.

Was a waste of me time.

But it sure do look good hangin up there on me wall...makes it look like a real loofiers shop.


blessings
duh Padma
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon May 16, 2011 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
I really hate working with molds (moulds??). They are clunky, heavy, and messy to build. I think I am leaning more towards workboards. If your bender shape is accurate, a mold seems like over kill.

Leaning,

Mike
Author:  segovia [ Tue May 17, 2011 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
Thanks, you have given me something to think about - the Solera method definitely seems to be the option of choice and in many ways I can see the benefits. I can also see som of the issues of not using a mold - one being the sides not being perfectly bent.

It does not make sense to me to bend sides which are not near perfect, with or without a mold incorrectly bent sides are asking for trouble. I never liked the idea of using a mold to compensate for poor bending.

John
Author:  jfmckenna [ Tue May 17, 2011 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
I don't think you get away with poor bending with a mold, that's not the purpose of a mold really. The mold is useful for aligning and building the box but you still need accurate bends. You may be able to get away with a little bit more but still even in open work board construction you can get away with minimal bending errors.
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Wed May 18, 2011 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mold or no mold
Interesting Todd, I use a mould but all the operations you describe, I do them outside of the mould! For gluing blocks, side tape and linings I find working with the free sides much easier and certainly less "clunky". When it is time to profile the rim to my 5' lateral arch the mould is almost indispensable, unless one uses stiff laminated sides. It is true that I use a 1/4" bolt to secure the end block to the mould, and a 5/32" screw for the neck block, so it is a no-brainer to take the rim in and out of the mould without registration.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/