Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron

Since the thread seems to have accomplished its purpose, and everyone has been duly impressed, and thanked Howard, beehive

is it ok to wander a bit?
I have an ancient iron that was a kit from Lewis Luthier Supplies. It is a oval shaped thin-walled steel pipe, heated with a ceramic cone wrapped with resistance wire. A switch and thermostat is mounted on a thick plywood base insulated with an cement-asbestos plate.
I thought that the heating element was failing a while back, and began to search for a replacement, and was unable to find one.
I don't know the source of the original, I remember when I was a kid, the family having a space heater with a cone element like it.
So my question is: does anyone know a source for a heating element with a screw-down flanged base, max of 2" dia. and 4-6" long.

Author:	Howard Klepper [ Tue May 10, 2011 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
I mentioned in a thread about these a month ago that I wanted to try a hotter cartridge. I had to run my iron on High and wait about 15 minutes to get it hot enough for a tight bend, and even then, it didn't seem to have enough heat. The stock heat cartridge is 200W. I replaced it with a 400W. I also replaced the thermostat switch. And since the block of wood (poplar, I think) was very charred after years of use, I replaced that, too, with a block I cut from a walnut stump. The white heat shield stuff fell apart, so I replaced it with 5/8" sheetrock (with most of the paper peeled off). The cartridge was not a tight fit, despite being the same dimensions as the old one (which wasn't tight when I tried inserting it again, either); I wrapped aluminum foil around it a couple of times to get it snug. I bored the walnut block with Forstner and sawtooth bits. Well, I just did a tight cutaway in pernambuco. It is not that hard a wood to bend, but it was still like night and day compared to the old iron. It was hot in about 4 minutes. I had to turn it down from High because it was scorching too easily; ended up keeping it on about 6, then down to about 5-1/2. There was much more heat available; the wood easily turned plastic when previous bends of the same wood felt like they had to be leaned on for a while, and then were prone to fail from being forced too much. I suspect that the old switch might have worked about the same; I think that in the time the switch is on, much more heat is getting into the iron, so even if it cycles at about the same temperature at the switch, the iron is getting hotter. Also, the switch may be a bit better insulated from the iron in my new version. It did not cycle so rapidly as the old one did. After about 10 minutes of bending I had bumped the switch down a couple of notches. I did get some scorching. This is a hot rod, right? You need to be careful with all that heat available and keep the work moving, and spritz as needed with water. This may be why the manufacturer chose the 200W; the new iron is working closer to the edge of burning the wood. But that's what I wanted, and I didn't get any scorches that won't sand off. I'm very happy with the change. For those who are interested, the cartridge is Grainger part # 4njj3. The switch is Grainger # 6kxf5. The usual disclaimers about working with electrical parts and things that get hot. Be careful.

Author:	Stephen Boone [ Tue May 10, 2011 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Thank you Howard!

Author:	gozierdt [ Tue May 10, 2011 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Howard, thanks for the info. I ordered the heater and switch, because I've also been very dissatisfied with how long it takes the iron to heat up.

Author:	Bill Hodge [ Tue May 10, 2011 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Thanks for posting those Grainger part numbers Howard. I've been thinking about doing the same thing for the same reasons you mentioned but haven't taken the time to do so. I was just bending some Asian Ebony a little while a go and wishing the Ibex would perform a little better in the quick-n-plenty heat category.

Author:	Chris aka Sniggly [ Tue May 10, 2011 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Big Thanks Howard!

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Author:	Jim Kirby [ Tue May 10, 2011 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Verging on me-too, but thanks. The stock iron does take way too long to get up to speed.

Author:	Corky Long [ Wed May 11, 2011 10:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Sweet! Thanks Howard. Now I know what to do with that fried electric bending iron that's been taking up space on my table!

Author:	David Newton [ Wed May 11, 2011 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Since the thread seems to have accomplished its purpose, and everyone has been duly impressed, and thanked Howard, is it ok to wander a bit? I have an ancient iron that was a kit from Lewis Luthier Supplies. It is a oval shaped thin-walled steel pipe, heated with a ceramic cone wrapped with resistance wire. A switch and thermostat is mounted on a thick plywood base insulated with an cement-asbestos plate. I thought that the heating element was failing a while back, and began to search for a replacement, and was unable to find one. I don't know the source of the original, I remember when I was a kid, the family having a space heater with a cone element like it. So my question is: does anyone know a source for a heating element with a screw-down flanged base, max of 2" dia. and 4-6" long.

Author:	jmcphail [ Wed May 11, 2011 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Another question, perhaps folks who've disassembled their Ibex irons would know, how does the cartridge mount to whatever it mounts to?

Author:	oval soundhole [ Wed May 11, 2011 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
I was thinking about taking mine apart too but for some reason it works fine now. At 5 it stays at a constant temp and I have no idea what happened.

Author:	Howard Klepper [ Wed May 11, 2011 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
David Newton wrote: Since the thread seems to have accomplished its purpose, and everyone has been duly impressed, and thanked Howard, is it ok to wander a bit? I have an ancient iron that was a kit from Lewis Luthier Supplies. It is a oval shaped thin-walled steel pipe, heated with a ceramic cone wrapped with resistance wire. A switch and thermostat is mounted on a thick plywood base insulated with an cement-asbestos plate. I thought that the heating element was failing a while back, and began to search for a replacement, and was unable to find one. I don't know the source of the original, I remember when I was a kid, the family having a space heater with a cone element like it. So my question is: does anyone know a source for a heating element with a screw-down flanged base, max of 2" dia. and 4-6" long. Is that the kind that screws into a lamp base?

Author:	Steve Kinnaird [ Wed May 11, 2011 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Many thanks, Howard. Steve

Author:	jmcphail [ Thu May 12, 2011 5:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Thanks! Howard Klepper wrote: jmcphail wrote: Another question, perhaps folks who've disassembled their Ibex irons would know, how does the cartridge mount to whatever it mounts to? Friction. It's obvious when you open it up.

Author:	Antonio [ Thu May 12, 2011 5:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
I also had problems with my Ibex; the heating element stopped working and I had only used it twice. Since it was new, I could replace the element. I have also thought that if this would happen again, what would be the cheapest way to replace this expensive element. I have found here in Portugal, heating elements for soldering irons that costs about €1,00. They are 60Watt; I think 3 of them could do the job. the problem is how to attach them to the aluminum rod.

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Author:	David Newton [ Thu May 12, 2011 8:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Howard, thanks for the interest. No, the ceramic cone is all one piece, the base is a flange with holes for mounting screws, and tapers up to the cone, which has grooves to hold the spiral resistance wire. I don't know why I think I need a replacement element. This one is only 36 years old. I guess I don't want to have to find a new teardrop shaped bender that doesn't work well, after this long.

Author:	Markus Schmid [ Thu May 12, 2011 8:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Thanks for this, Howard. I always wondered where to get those heating elements from. Antonio, I only would try to go the soldering iron element way if you really enjoy this kind of tinkering, the money saved doesn't pay the additional work. Grainger also offer the same parts for 240V (cartridge item # 4NKA2, the switch most probably item # 6KXF4 but maybe also # 6KXF3 or # 6KXK3 - better ask at Grainger) and offer worldwide delivery.

Author:	Antonio [ Thu May 12, 2011 9:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Markus, Thank you for the info. They are really not that expensive.

Author:	Howard Klepper [ Thu May 12, 2011 11:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
David, my first bender, built about 1977, was a thick walled galvanized pipe (a mistake; it got hot enough to melt the zinc off the pipe) with one of those cone shaped ceramics inside. The kind with a coil element that looks like a spring, and screws into a ceramic lamp base (at least, it had better be ceramic). No thermostat, just a switch. I somehow managed to bend the sides for my first guitar with it (padauk, also a mistake because it is tough to bend). I still have the iron sitting on a shelf. So far as I know, the element still works. The ibex type irons were available (or something else with an egg shaped iron), but the $100 price seemed steep at the time. Considering inflation and what they cost now, it was steep!

Author:	npalen [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Howard, have you thought about injecting some nitrous oxide? Seriously, nice contribution. Nelson

Author:	Howard Klepper [ Fri May 13, 2011 1:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
npalen wrote: Howard, have you thought about injecting some nitrous oxide? Seriously, nice contribution. Nelson Nelson, there are better uses for nitrous oxide. Did you see that episode of Quantum Leap, btw? Howard

Author:	TonyFrancis [ Fri May 13, 2011 6:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Howard, You are such a tease! No pictures? Do you use a backing strap when hand bending?

Author:	Howard Klepper [ Fri May 13, 2011 11:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
TonyFrancis wrote: Howard, You are such a tease! No pictures? Do you use a backing strap when hand bending? There is nothing to see but an Ibex bending iron on a walnut base. I didn't take process photos. I use a backing piece of stainless steel sheet metal for tight bends. Not a strap in the sense of having handles on the ends, although I imagine that could be helpful.

Author:	Eric Reid [ Fri May 13, 2011 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hotrodded my Ibex bending iron
Thanks Howard. I've been meaning to try that for a while. Great to know that it's worth doing, and to have the part numbers. You mentioned the poor fit of the cartridge. I think this an important detail, and adds to the issues of slow heating, and element burnout. I put some aluminum foil around the stock element on mine, and it does come to temperature a little faster now. I'd still like more watts.