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alternative back tone woods
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Author:  ernie [ Tue May 03, 2011 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  alternative back tone woods
. Before I go to my friendly hardwood store . I would like to ask . What are alternative back woods that you use . I have a small supply of malaysian rosewood. I am looking for something to replace the indian rosewood , which is becomimg increasingly $$$$ and scarce . I saw some morado , bolivian rosewood ?? and ovangkol or shedua/ Are these accepatable substittutes ??? I want them for mostly classical guitars. Your thoughts and experiences please . Thanks
Author:  micahmed [ Tue May 03, 2011 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
if you could find is madagascar rosewood would be cool. thats what I want.
Author:  mcgr40 [ Tue May 03, 2011 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
I bought some honduran rosewood, from a guy here in town. I am attaching a pix of a piece that I thought was by far the prettiest I had ever seen, he had some other pcs , also that were flat sawn, but I thought it too pretty to pass up also.
Attachment:
002.JPG

This was still pretty wet when I sawed it and I don't kknow enough about the species to know if it will darken, I just thought it really cool. I am trying to look through his pcs to see if he has any more like this. Most of what else I have found is kinda plain, however.
Author:  jac68984 [ Tue May 03, 2011 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
Bubinga, cocobolo, padauk, Osage Orange, purple heart can usually be found in some quality lumber stores and processed into lively backs and sides for relatively cheap.
Author:  John Arnold [ Tue May 03, 2011 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
Unless you resaw it yourself, Madagascar RW and Honduran RW are generally more expensive than IRW. In fact, most true rosewoods are more expensive than IRW. But there are alternatives. Morado is good, but only if you like woods that are denser than IRW. My current favorites for tone are macacauba (maca wood) and bloodwood. Both can be hard to find in guitar sets, but IMHO the search is worth it.
Here is a nice macacauba set (no affiliation):
http://cgi.ebay.com/Macacauba-Back-and-Sides-Guitar-wood-brazilian-rosewood-/300553250830?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item45fa5ea80e
Other very good-sounding inexpensive woods are padauk and wenge.
Author:  Gtrman13 [ Tue May 03, 2011 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
I was given several boards of brazilian cherry (jatoba) which I got sawed up for some B&S sets. The stuff is beautiful, but it's pretty tough to work with. I should be done with the first guitar made with the stash in a few weeks. I have high hopes for this one, the stuff rang like a bell when tapped. I'll give a full report when it's all finished up.
Author:  micahmed [ Tue May 03, 2011 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
What would you say bubinga sounds most like?
Author:  jac68984 [ Tue May 03, 2011 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
micahmed wrote:
What would you say bubinga sounds most like?


Probably falls between EIR and mahogany. Fairly balanced tonally with not as much bass as EIR generally.
Author:  John Arnold [ Tue May 03, 2011 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
Quote:
What would you say bubinga sounds most like?

Like a bad piece of IRW. Sorry, I just haven't been all that impressed with the tap tone of bubinga. I have some beautiful looking stuff, though.
Quote:
I was given several boards of brazilian cherry (jatoba)......

I forgot about jatoba. Very reasonably priced, and great tap tone. Like padauk, it can be challenging to bend, but if you have the nerve to go to 0.065", it bends OK. Just use side braces.
Author:  micahmed [ Tue May 03, 2011 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
John Arnold wrote:
Quote:
What would you say bubinga sounds most like?

Like a bad piece of IRW. Sorry, I just haven't been all that impressed with the tap tone of bubinga. I have some beautiful looking stuff, though.
Quote:
I was given several boards of brazilian cherry (jatoba)......

I forgot about jatoba. Very reasonably priced, and great tap tone. Like padauk, it can be challenging to bend, but if you have the nerve to go to 0.065", it bends OK. Just use side braces.


hmm okay I just bought a set but it was only $69 ship. maybe I'll luck out thanks plus im new to this so it prob wont bother me.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Tue May 03, 2011 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
It actually makes a great looking and sounding classical guitar. You just have to treat it right. You can go a bit thinner with it. Rings just fine.
Author:  micahmed [ Tue May 03, 2011 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
WaddyThomson wrote:
It actually makes a great looking and sounding classical guitar. You just have to treat it right. You can go a bit thinner with it. Rings just fine.

how thick would you say?
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Tue May 03, 2011 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
It's going to depend on the piece, but I think I worked mine to about 1.8 mm on the sides and in the 2.2 range on the back. Mine was not heavily figured. It's pretty tough stuff.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Tue May 03, 2011 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
If you're willing to venture beyond the rosewoods a whole new world opens up.

I've been quite impressed with Ash, believe it or not. Mine was Green Ash. I am about to start my first rosewood guitar so I can't really compare them.
Author:  ledbthand [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
I'm getting ready to build my second acoustic (never was happy with the one I built about 2 years ago) in a couple weeks and I wanted to use bloodwood but still haven't figured out where to get it from yet. I wanted a set of dreadnaught size back and sides but LMI only has classical/OM size in stock and I have no idea where a good trustworthy place to get a side set and spruce top from at the same time is.

I may wind up getting 2 of my 8/4 soft maple electric body blanks (40x2x8.5) cut into backs and sides and just work with it instead. Hopefully I don't wind up only being able to get OM sets out of them tho.
Author:  DennisK [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
Yeah, bloodwood is somewhat rare to run across... Allied posted a couple of awesome figured sets a couple months ago, but they were snapped up before I got there. Might check with them to see if they have any plain sets lying around though. RC tonewoods has it on their menu as out of stock, but you might as well ask to be sure, and to see if he can sniff around for any. There's a lumber place here in town that stocks it, but when I was there a couple days ago they only had a few flatsawn boards, that were rather dull in color.

However, that reminds me... Ernie, if you're still looking for alternatives to Indian rosewood, head over to Schutte Lumber and check the wenge supply. Splinters aside, I've heard it makes a fine tonewood, maybe even better than Indian. There were a couple of excellent boards there that I almost bought, but then decided not to since I don't have a way to slice them up. Might still be there. Both just slightly off quarter, 3/4" thick. One about 5-6" by maybe 7'. Ought to get at least two side billets from it, and maybe a 3-piece back. The other is quite magnificent, maybe even wide enough for one-piece classical backs (I didn't have a tape measure with me). All $16.50/bdft, I think. I would love to buy a set off of you if you get them :) If you'd like, I could run up there on Monday to check, since I'm a fair bit closer.
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
If you like EIR, nothing beats it for quality and price, even though it is climbing in value. All the other rosewoods are either more expensive, much rarer or heavier, most likely all of this. If you can find some, Panama and Amazon RW are great, but not cheaper than EIR.
Cocobolo, Madagascar RW, Honduran RW and African BW are all much more expensive than EIR, and on a whole different level I would think.

I do not know padauk and bubinga, those woods never appealed to me, but they seem quite different than EIR.

Jatoba is great, I am building with it right now, but not comparable to EIR in the slightest IMHO. It is tough, wiry and can be thinned considerably without losing integrity, amazingly. I bent my sides at .067" very hot, dry and relatively quickly with absolutely no springback. The back is .070" thick and is as stiff as a .100" EIR back in all directions, I did not dare to go thinner on a large guitar.

Bloodwood is a great tonewood, I built 3 guitars with it. It is much denser than EIR, smells like Dutch tobacco and invariably cracks once in the shape of a guitar. Bends like butter if there is no runout. Try to get the bright red boards, a lot of the bloodwood around seems to have lost colour in the kiln. It keeps its colour under finish and with UV exposure, unlike padauk. But it will crack…

Wenge has the biggest potential IMHO. Besides the eternally annoying splintery nature of the wood, it has a beautiful taptone, is relatively light (about the same as EIR or MadRW) and looks great under finish. A bit more work to fill the pores though. I use it for neck stock sometimes, and changed my mind (I loathed it) about using it as a tonewood.

Jatoba, bloodwood and wenge are inexpensive now and widely available in most lumberyards around the country (or on the internet). It's also easy to find large vertical grain boards to resaw into sets.

IME ash, oak, maple, birch and most domestic woods do not have the same tonal potential as EIR, at all. Not a bad thing either, but I wouldn't expect any of those to be an alternative for EIR. However, if you do not mind the somewhat dull appearance, black locust is as close to EIR as I've seen. It's even better than EIR for bridgeplate material as it is much tougher.

Hard to beat EIR for availability, price, quality and stability in service…
Author:  CharlieT [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
Laurent Brondel wrote:
If you can find some, Panama and Amazon RW are great, but not cheaper than EIR.


Gilmer has some sets of Guatamalan RW up right now. Same thing as "Panama" (tucurensis), I believe. Pretty reasonably priced IMO.
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
CharlieT wrote:
Gilmer has some sets of Guatamalan RW up right now. Same thing as "Panama" (tucurensis), I believe. Pretty reasonably priced IMO.
I built few guitars with those, great tonewoods. Still much more expensive than what I would pay for EIR, and also, perhaps more importantly, rift to flat-sawn…
Author:  CharlieT [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: alternative back tone woods
Laurent Brondel wrote:
I built few guitars with those, great tonewoods. Still much more expensive than what I would pay for EIR, and also, perhaps more importantly, rift to flat-sawn…


Hi Laurent - I haven't built anything with it yet, but it's encouraging to hear you've had success with it. I was lucky enough to get several reasonably well-quartered sets a while back. Some of the sets Gilmer has up right now are closer to quartered than the ones they've had in the recent past.

It is relatively light in weight compared to most other rosewoods, and seems to have very low damping. Yes, it is a bit more expensive, though.
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