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This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=32010		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Chris Beebe [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
Resently sold some back and side sets in the classifieds and had quite a few interested individuals. A party offered to pay for the items and I accepted then I get this from a different party that had asked for pictures.

Penndan wrote "You sold them despite my interest in them. That was a prick thing to do.
Dan"


Im sorry but this use to be a forum we didn't have to be insulted and I will not be participating in this forum any longer.
Author:  Andy Birko [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
Dang, thin skin on both your parts.

I'm not going anywhere but it would be nice if we all toned it down a notch (myself included sometimes).
Author:  micahmed [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
I won't lie I was king up upset you sold them and didn't say anything to me. I was the first person to pm you about them and you said you were going to send me pics of them and then I see you sold them. That was a bit shadey man. Buy what ever.
Author:  Steve Davis [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
All 5531 of us eh?
Author:  WudWerkr [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
Lance Please remove this Thread !
Author:  weslewis [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
+1 on thread removal
Author:  David Newton [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
I love how the classifieds work around here. You offer something for sale and the first person who offers to buy, gets it.
When you see something you like, you say "I'll take it" and you usually do, if you are first.
It doesn't always work perfect, as this sale shows, but it is better than nothing, a lot better.

Chris, we need you, and you need us. You didn't do anything wrong, so stick around.
Author:  George L [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
Agreed. It would be a shame to see you go, Chris. At the top of this very page it reads, "Be nice, no cussin and enjoy." Seems pretty simple.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
It's time for another exciting episode of, "As The Luthiersforum Turns"!! Eat Drink
Author:  Pat Hawley [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
+1 to say that Chris did nothing wrong or "shadey". An expression of interest in no way obliges someone to hold something they are selling. This should be understood.

Pat
Author:  CharlieT [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
David Newton wrote:
It doesn't always work perfect, as this sale shows, but it is better than nothing, a lot better.

Chris, we need you, and you need us. You didn't do anything wrong, so stick around.


I want to second David's sentiments. Nothing is perfect, including our classifieds, but I love 'em and hope little spats never get in the way of our ability to trade items here. It's a great resource to anyone who wants to participate.

Chris - from where I stand you did nothing wrong here. Please don't something like this drive you off. :(
Author:  Robert Renick [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
I can understand frustration from the potential buyers perspective, but agree with Pat, these type of sales are cash and carry, got the cash? or questions? Name calling is never appropriate.

We do occasionally get frustrated with our friends on these forums, but we spend time on them because we want to learn from one another, and in our local communities, it is hard to find friends who can talk about this stuff with to the extent we stringed instrument building psychos prefer. We are here to collaborate and become better builders(and typists). If something is not helping us with that goal, ignore it, and keep eyes on the prize, building better instruments.

I have enjoyed the posts from both parties, and sincerely hope that you both stick around and continue to contribute.

Related story:
Last summer after finishing my only 2 guitars in my very cool downstairs shop, I lost the shop in one of the most frustrating experiences I have had. Our building has 3 levels, top, where I live with my family, 3 years now, middle is a Charter School who has been there a year with a long lease. Down below are 2 garage spaces, one I was using, the other side gets rented by some new folks in town for a home insulation business, basically to store trucks. The school approaches me to teach some woodworking out the shop downstairs, in order to be insurance compliant with the students, the school will rent the shop space and I will sublet a bit from them, then the students are always on school property, not really in my shop. We emailed the owner of our intentions, the deal is almost done with the landlord, when at the last minute, the landlord calls and tells me he rented the other space to the insulation company, they had cash, signed the lease and it was done, instead of preparing for my new job, I had a week to move a shop and prepare for my first year teaching.
I was so mad, my hair almost caught fire.
I have spent this entire winter teaching these kids in carpeted classrooms carrying my tool box and supplies into the school. My tools are never where I want them as they are moving from the school to my shop, I have to assemble what I need in the morning, load up a pile of clamps on a cold winter morning, feels good on the hands. Still don't have a place to build guitars.
Not sure I am over it, the landlord wants to build a building for myself and the school this summer, no thanks, we will do business elsewhere.
Author:  Chris Beebe [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
I want to appologize to everyone and exspecially penndan for this post, while I don't think I did anything wrong in selling the sets to the party I sold them to; I should have just kept the angry response from penndan to myself and not made such a big deal about it. I really don't want to leave the forum and an sorry for my previous comments.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
[:Y:] Good for you Chris !! [:Y:] Respect level has gone up huge by your comment and apology for post . [clap]
Author:  klooker [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
Steve Davis wrote:
All 5531 of us eh?


Chris,

It's your decision but do you think it's realistic to think you could go to a function with over 5000 people and get along with all of them?

And yes, I agree that this should be removed or moved to off topic.

Kevin Looker
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
Between the two of you I see only a total of 120 or so posts, hang around to you get a little time in before you bail out, the good really exceeds the bad by a huge amount on OLF

Fred
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
Fred Tellier wrote:
Between the two of you I see only a total of 120 or so posts, hang around to you get a little time in before you bail out, the good really exceeds the bad by a huge amount on OLF


I'll vouch for that. This is a great place for getting questions answered. I can't think of one time I posted a question that didn't return an answer....and a solution for a problem. That's a breath of fresh air to someone who's done a lot of reasearch and knows how challenging it can be to get valuable information.

Thanks to you all....btw.

I wouldn't abandon a good resource due to the rudeness of one person. Nor would I hold anyone but that person accountable for his rudeness. I wouldn't abandon anyone for being rude unless they were intractable after having been confronted. My point is...confront rudeness directly. I'm trying to figure out what we did as a board to deserve a judgement.
Author:  James Orr [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
The first person to buy the goose gets the eggs. It's not enough to say you're interested in its feathers.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
James Orr wrote:
The first person to buy the goose gets the eggs. It's not enough to say you're interested in its feathers.



laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe
Author:  Tom West [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
Chris: I know one can get P.O.ed at things like this but if you have been around many forums I'm sure you would have to agree that the vast majority of folks at the OLF are some of the most giving and friendly you could find anywhere. Don't let this person bother you. Life's not worth it. Stick around.
Tom
Author:  jm2 [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
The first person to buy the goose gets the eggs. It's not enough to say you're interested in its feathers.

I am not so sure it's that cut and dry. I am new here, and arguably should keep quiet, but I must confess I have an interest in such issues.

There are certain conventions and etiquette of buying and selling that are certainly not law, but are usually adhered to as a matter of fairness and good faith. One is that sellers make at least a minor effort to sell in chronological order of responses received. Since there were no pictures in the ad, the first interested party could not be expected to agree sight unseen, and thus asked for pictures. He may well have closed the deal the moment they arrived, but was not given the opportunity to do so. The timeline and details of the sale transaction are not known, nor the actual wording used in the inquiry by the party that lost, and such details are certainly necessary to render a well informed opinion, however, depending on these unknowns, it may not be unreasonable for the first responder to be a bit annoyed.

Having said that, I would have expressed any disappointment in private mail in a much more civilized way. And having said that, I would not have responded by posting a private message in a public forum, at least not without the permission of the other party.

I am willing to admit to being somewhat old fashioned about such things. ;)
Author:  mqbernardo [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
i like this forum, it´s the best thing that happened to me in teh internetz. friendly, informative and no spam.
Author:  James Orr [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
jm2 wrote:
One is that sellers make at least a minor effort to sell in chronological order of responses received.


I agree, but the person didn't commit.

jm2 wrote:
Since there were no pictures in the ad, the first interested party could not be expected to agree sight unseen, and thus asked for pictures.


Since there weren't pictures in the ad, I would've asked for pics, too. But if someone said, "I'll take it!" after I asked, then it'd be there's. Someone did eventually commit sight unseen.

Pendan didn't commit. He just said he was interested. I've sold a LOT of stuff on the internet, mainly at The Gear Page. Pictures are a luxury and make things a lot easier, but I typically get multiple notes of interest per item regardless based on the reputation of the items. The first person to say they'll take it gets it, even if someone asked a question prior.
Author:  PoppaWoodie [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
I don't get what the big deal is. It's just wood, guys! I don't understand the need for anyone to get worked up over something so insignificant. Maybe the sale didn't go exactly like everyone would have hoped, but whatever. It happens.

It never ceases to amaze me the kinds of things that people get upset about. Then again, maybe I'm just weird like that. Haha.
Author:  Chris aka Sniggly [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This forum has really went down the tubes, goodbye everyone
PoppaWoodie wrote:
I don't get what the big deal is. It's just wood, guys! I don't understand the need for anyone to get worked up over something so insignificant. Maybe the sale didn't go exactly like everyone would have hoped, but whatever. It happens.

It never ceases to amaze me the kinds of things that people get upset about. Then again, maybe I'm just weird like that. Haha.



Oh...Poppa Woodie....Sir....it IS NOT just wood. It's GUITAR wood.....the difference needs no explanation and is universally recognized by all living creatures. Requests for explanations of that difference are simply scoffed at and waved away by the roll of an eye!!.... laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe beehive beehive

On another note, this is good reason to remind everyone; conduct your business in the thread for all to see. Keeps this sort of stuff from raising it's head.
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