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Alternative Top Woods?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31992		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Oubaas [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternative Top Woods?
Aside from the various spruces, red cedar, and mahogany, has anyone experimented with alternative top woods, particularly of the North American variety, but including anything else as well?

I'm looking around here in extreme eastern Oklahoma, trying to come up with possible local woods that could be used for a build. Persimmon as a fretboard and bridge wood comes easily to mind, several woods for necks and sides/back could be considered, Sassafras, Eastern Red Cedar, Yellow Poplar, all sorts of things, but a top wood is a real puzzler.

I'd hate to resort to Loblolly (Yellow) Pine. But spruce and genuine (non-Juniper) cedar aren't local woods.

Any ideas?

Rick
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
SPruce grows everywhere, right?
Author:  Oubaas [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
Yes, I'm playing with the idea of building something with only local woods.

I have a friend with an industrial strength saw mill and full logging paraphernalia right around the corner who will cut and quartersaw anything for me, or otherwise butcher the wood in whatever manner I'd. I'm surrounded everywhere by trees. I own a fair piece of woods myself, and it just seems like a shame to waste resources like this by not building something out of all local wood and that's why I'm kicking this idea around in my head. But if there's spruce around here, I haven't found it, and my friend with the sawmill says he doesn't know of any in this area.

It may be time to hit the local university press and see what they have on wood and trees in this area.

Rick
Author:  jm2 [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
I am the wrong person to respond, since I have made precisely zero guitars, but I always thought Douglas Fir would make an interesting top wood. It has great color, grows straight, and often has tight grain. I am not sure if it is used much for guitar. If so, I would be curious to hear observations of its qualities as soundboard material.
Author:  John Mayes [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
You've got some choices for back and sides such as Osage Orange, and Oak. Both which are excellent woods.

For soundboards you're going to be severely limited. Ponderosa pine grows here...although not large enough to make a 2 piece guitar top from. You might be able to get some of it from elsewhere....it might not have grown in OK, but it is a tree that is native to OK. And even at that I'm not sure how good it would be....
Author:  Darryl Young [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
It wouldn't have the sound of spruce, but if you can make a decent guitar with a mahogany or koa top, I don't know why you couldn't build one with an eastern red cedar top (juniper).
Author:  douglas ingram [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
I've also used White Cedar and White Pine. Both produce very nice guitars.

White Pine, in particular, should be used more as it grows very large and produces fine lumber. It ends up looking and behaving a lot like spruce.

White Cedar grows in too limited a range and does not grow large enough to be reliably available for lutherie. But if you can get it, use it. Behaves and works like cedar, looks like spruce (almost).
Author:  Corky Long [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
I think I'd be tempted to expand my geographic range a bit - to include some Adirondack Spruce..... you can't really substitute a mediocre top and have a decent guitar. Everything else is mostly swappable - all the other suggestions make sense, but tops.... too important.
Author:  John Mayes [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
I thought we were talking about woods indigenous to Oklahoma. If that's not the case disregard my previous post.
Author:  David Newton [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
Yeah, only local OK woods, lots of fun if you aren't trying to appeal to a world-wide market.
You are just trying to build one, right?

So what's wrong with pine?
Pine is like "Redneck Spruce".

I've got all my stuff together for an "all pine guitar". Just this once.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
Nothing wrong with 4 piece tops either!
Author:  Randolph [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
jm2 wrote:
I am the wrong person to respond, since I have made precisely zero guitars, but I always thought Douglas Fir would make an interesting top wood. It has great color, grows straight, and often has tight grain. I am not sure if it is used much for guitar. If so, I would be curious to hear observations of its qualities as soundboard material.


I played a lot of guitars at the last Healdsburg Guitar Festival and by far the best sounding one I played was a guitar built by AJ Lucas which had a Doug Fir top. It rang like a bell. I'm not really sure why it isn't used more than it is.
Author:  Bill Bounds [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
Hey Rick:
Got any Caltulpa trees. Some nice guitars are built tops, sides and backs with that.
Bill
Author:  jeb98 [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
I agree with Dave that you should definitely try out pine. I got some some pine that came from old barns from my area, not with the idea of using it for guitars, but merely for woodworking projects, and it is very acoustically resonant, and it has a great tap tone. None of the pieces I have are suitable for guitar tops as they are knotty and rift/flat sawn, but I think that pine would make a great top if it were quartersawn and free of knots, etc.

Jonas
Author:  Oubaas [ Mon May 02, 2011 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
Wow! Thanks for all the suggestions everyone! Lots of great ideas to try out there.

As it happens, I've got quite a bit of old, well-aged pine, and some of it is quartersawn. I kept it for...well I don't know why I kept it really. I just can't stand to throw away wood that could still be useful. I may give it a try.

I'm at a stage where I'm still outfitting the shop (that just got a huge boost, but that's another story) and I'm practicing techniques. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment, but I decided that I'm going to learn to scratch build instead of starting with kits, learn to carve necks, learn to bend wood on a pipe or iron, try to learn how to do everything with the most basic methods. Once I can do that, perhaps I'll ease up on myself and indulge in things like bending machines.

A big focus for me right now is getting my inlay technique to the best that I can do, and right now I'm acquiring all the tools to inlay and to engrave shell. So my wife will probably be receiving a lot of inlaid scrap wood for decorations until I start feeling like I can do it well. I'm a retired disabled veteran, so I've got lots of time to practice all the various techniques, and I have a friend who owns and runs a commercial sawmill, so coming up with cheap wood is easy. And I have a fairly large wood collection of all sorts of stuff that I've saved myself.

So I figure that eventually, I'll own the world's largest collection of hand-carved scrap wood guitar necks... laughing6-hehe

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'll be trying as many of them as I can, along with some of the back and side suggestions as well. If anything shines as an alternative wood, I'll report in with what I've found!

Rick
Author:  bluescreek [ Mon May 02, 2011 6:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
I have tried white pine and I wasn't impressed but there are 2 woods that are indigenous to Pennsylvania that do make good tops. Norway Spruce and Blue Spruce . I have seen catalpa and I can see where that would be mahoganyish . Early in my career I use a lot of local woods. Walnut , cherry and the spruce mentioned. With White pine , you need a nice sized tree to get good quartered stock.
Mesquite is another tree that is indigenous to the western area. Interesting thread.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon May 02, 2011 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative Top Woods?
I agree with waddy, 3 or 4 piece top is fine. One day I am going to build a top with Polonia, while it's not native to the US it sure does grow well here in Virginia.
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