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Everclear??!!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31991		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  runamuck [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Everclear??!!
I was intrigued with reading from various people here about using Everclear as a solvent
for making shellac. So I bought a bottle.

It's been sitting on my bench for over a week now and it still hasn't amalgamated.
I've shaken, stirred, warmed it up etc., etc.

So this morning I mixed up another 4 oz of shellac flakes but used denatured alcohol
like I've always done. I was wondering whether this batch of flakes was bad but about
3 hours later the flakes had pretty much broken down and liquified. I'm certain that by
tomorrow morning it'll be ready to strain and re-bottle.

So what am I missing with the Everclear? Has anyone here had luck with it? - not that
I intend to try it again necessarily. It's not cheap.
Author:  John A [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
What is the proof listed on the bottle you have ? % alcohol ?
Author:  Oubaas [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
You don't want over 10% water in the alcohol for shellac. Everclear is about 90% ethanol and 10% water, right at the very border of having too much water to use for shellac. Denatured alcohol, around 3% to 5% water, is the best, most cost-effective stuff. Anhydrous alcohol is water-free, but it's expensive overkill.

Rick
Author:  David Newton [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
I was on a health kick a couple of years ago and bought the "Diesel" brand, after finding it next on the shelf with Everclear, and a couple of bucks cheaper.
As an aside, one day I was polishing, and thought "you can drink this stuff?" and took a swig, it took me about an hour to recover from it.

Never had a problem dissolving flakes, or using it to polish.
I did have a problem with the price, so I'm back with denatured alcohol.
I try to wear gloves when working.
Author:  Robert Renick [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
If you purchased it in Cali then it is 170 not the 190 that is preferred, I have read on this site that the 170 does not really work.
Still planning a trip to Oregon to get some 190.
Rob
Author:  runamuck [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
John A wrote:
What is the proof listed on the bottle you have ? % alcohol ?


I'll have to double check but what I remember is 151 proof.
Author:  runamuck [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
comfyfoot wrote:
If you purchased it in Cali then it is 170 not the 190 that is preferred, I have read on this site that the 170 does not really work.
Still planning a trip to Oregon to get some 190.
Rob


I'm not at my shop right now so I can't say for sure but I think it was 151 proof. Whatever it is, it doesn't work.
And yeah, I bought it here in California.
Author:  Billy T [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
Arizona sells 190. I get mine from Bevmo. ....Don't drink it!
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
When my mom worked for a print shop back in the day before computers, she slaved away over a light table pasting up pages, ads, and artwork for the camera guys (who then made printing plates for the pressmen). All the beeswax, scotchtape goo, and assorted finger funk would eventually make the glass plate greasy. There wasn't a glass cleaner made that could render it squeaky clean, but a small bottle of Everclear and a clean cotton diaper got all the schmutz off.
Author:  John A [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
runamuck wrote:
John A wrote:
What is the proof listed on the bottle you have ? % alcohol ?


I'll have to double check but what I remember is 151 proof.



That's the problem - maybe you can make some Jello shots with it.

I paid about $15.00 for my bottle of everclear - normal size bottle - I think 750ml. What are you guys, that are complaining about price, paying ? I use Everclear since I like to be able to work inside the house. Although my French polishing can hardly be called French polish - I do use it to thin the shellac a little and spirit off the unevenness of my shellac.
Author:  Dan Pennington [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
I couldn't find the 190 proof Everclear in Minnesota so I had it shipped from an online wine retailer in New Jersey. Shipping was almost the same cost as the booze, but still cheaper than what it would have cost in gas to drive to Wisconsin or North Dakota to buy it.
Dan
Author:  Stephen Boone [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
Ever clear 190 proof is 95% ethyl alcohol and 5% water/contaminates/whatever. The only way to get a more pure ethyl alcohol is to purchase laboratory grade ethyl alcohol. Unfortunately ethyl alcohol is hydroscopic meaning that it naturally absorbs water from the environment. Even if you purchased pure ethyl alcohol it would soon absorb enough water to be back to 190 proof. If you start with 190 proof then you need to be aware of the hydroscopic nature of ethyl alcohol and take precautions against moisture absorption from the atmosphere. American Lutherie has an excellent article on the ethyl alcohol options available. Denatured alcohol is the same ethyl alcohol as ever clear with some form of poison added to make it undrinkable. This poison, depending on what it is, also has an effect on the voc level of the product in relation to 190 proof ethyl alcohol. I believe that I recall Kleen Green denatured scored the best in relation to ethyl alcohol for it's voc content. Ever clear 190 proof is an excellent solvent for shellac flakes and technically not poisonous but personally I would never drink it. Ever clear is roughly twice as expensive as denatured alcohol and the extra cost is all taxes.
Author:  runamuck [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
John A wrote:
runamuck wrote:
John A wrote:
What are you guys, that are complaining about price, paying ?


$ 21 a bottle. I think it is 750ml.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
It's 151 proof in FL. too. It has desolved shellac for me but sometimes it leaves chunks in it. I mix it with some coke from time to time. The Everclear not the shellac. :P
I'm going to use denatured again. I don't use all that much to worry about it. I just don't see it being that big a problem since it's been for sale since the depression. If it was that deadly then why has it been on the market all these years? Anyone know of someone who has had problems with using shellac desolved in denatured?
Author:  Bill Hodge [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
190 Proof in Colorado. I mixed up a batch of orange flakes the other day, and in less than 4 hours it was perfectly dissolved through and through. I have gotten bad flakes before from Woodcraft that wouldn't go completely solvent, even in high quality denatured alcohol, but they've switched suppliers since then. That said, I've never had the best denatured dissolve flakes as fast as the Everclear did the other day. Just blessed I supposed. :D
Author:  John A [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
Can you use denatured alcohol indoors with no real ventilation to the outside, for example a home office with windows closed?
Author:  DennisK [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
John A wrote:
Can you use denatured alcohol indoors with no real ventilation to the outside, for example a home office with windows closed?

I wouldn't. But I doubt anything bad would happen unless you do it regularly for a long time.

190 proof everclear is available here, and works great for me. Actually I used a cheaper off brand.

I get it on my fingers quite a bit while polishing, so I wouldn't want to use denatured even with good ventilation. But if it's all you've got, then you'll just have to be more careful about gloves, and go without testing moisture level by feel. Or accept a bit of toxicity... probably not much soaks into your blood when just touching the back of your hand. The drinkable stuff ain't so healthy either, anyway.
Author:  JoeUlman [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everclear??!!
Chris Paulick wrote:
...I'm going to use denatured again. I don't use all that much to worry about it. I just don't see it being that big a problem since it's been for sale since the depression. If it was that deadly then why has it been on the market all these years? Anyone know of someone who has had problems with using shellac desolved in denatured?

Denatured alcohol as a solvent for shellac shouldn’t be more hazardous than working with other applied finishes if one takes the normal precautions like wearing appropriate gloves, eye protection and working in a well ventilated area.

I think there is legitimate concern however when French polishing since relatively long sessions are spent in close proximity to the evaporating solvent. In this case some folks, me included, would rather not expose themselves to the various toxic additives found in denatured alcohol and therefore use 190 proof grain alcohol instead.

John A wrote:
Can you use denatured alcohol indoors with no real ventilation to the outside, for example a home office with windows closed?

If there’s a question, it’s probably best to read what’s in the particular variety of denatured alcohol you’re using and follow the recommended precautions on the label.

Joe
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