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| Tuners for Luthiers http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31988 |
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| Author: | Oubaas [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tuners for Luthiers |
Would you consider the Peterson StroboFlip virtual strobe tuner to be adequate for the purposes of a luthier? Or do you need to go further? Obviously something like the Peterson Strobe Center 5000-II would be the top of the heap, but I'd like to try to get things done without investing that much in a tuner. Rick |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
Overkill in my opinion. |
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| Author: | murrmac [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
The Peterson 490 is the minimum for accurate intonation setting, IMO. The Stroboflip is perfectly adequate for on-stage tuning. |
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| Author: | David Newton [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
Just to show the range of opinion and practice, I use a tuning fork in my shop. |
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| Author: | murrmac [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
David Newton wrote: Just to show the range of opinion and practice, I use a tuning fork in my shop. Great for tuning a guitar, David, assuming you have a good ear, but you're not suggesting that a tuning fork would suffice for saddle and nut compensation, are you ? |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
murrmac wrote: David Newton wrote: Just to show the range of opinion and practice, I use a tuning fork in my shop. Great for tuning a guitar, David, assuming you have a good ear, but you're not suggesting that a tuning fork would suffice for saddle and nut compensation, are you ? |
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| Author: | Oubaas [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
Wide variance in opinion I see. I'd be looking to use it to set intonation and so forth as well as attempting to employ it to tune parts and assemblies. The 490 still makes me say, "Ouch!" but I think it might be worthwhile if the StroboFlip won't cut it. I tend to be pretty much of a perfectionist and like to try to cover every detail along the way. Thanks for the feedback, folks! Rick |
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| Author: | John Coloccia [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
I haven't been able to gel with my Strobostomp. I've really come to dislike the jumpy interface. The Turbo Tuner has been getting some rave reviews, though I mostly use a tuning fork too now and just double check with a tuner. |
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| Author: | Dave Fifield [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
Um, I intonate by ear. I have a Peterson 490 tuner (and other lesser tuners), but I find it slows me down and I can do just as good a job by listening carefully. Dave F. |
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| Author: | Alain Moisan [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
David Newton wrote: Just to show the range of opinion and practice, I use a tuning fork in my shop. David, I love you man! Rick, since you are a perfectionist, you might want to disregard what I'm about to say, but I believe many builders/repairmans/tech guys spend way too much time and energy on intonation. Spending several 100$ for a strobe thingy is a good example I think. Let say you get your guitar perfectly intonated. here's what will happen next: - The next day you will use it, it will not be perfectly intonated anymore because for some reason, you wont use EXACTLY the same finger pressure when fretting. - The customer to whom you make the guitar will also not use the same finger pressure you did when intonating, thus offsetting your pefectly intonated guitar. - As soon as the strings will get older, they won't have the same tension, and that will also offset your perfectly intonated guitar - When humidity/temperature will change, the string height will change, and that will also... you get it. The point of intonating a guitar is to make it as in tune as possible when playing all over the neck. If a guitar doesn't sound sharp as you play up the neck, intonation is sufficently accurate. And that is why David can very well use his tuning fork to intonate his guitars. My .02$. |
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| Author: | murrmac [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
an illuminating thread ... I would never have thought there were so many ears who could home into a .01 cent accuracy ... but, you live and learn. |
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| Author: | David Newton [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
Thanks Alain for putting that into words for me. The word "perfection" and "me" live on two different planets... Practically speaking, I use two different scale lengths, and have figured out (by trial and error) the compensation measurements for those two scales. So, I don't "intonate", I just make sure my saddle is in the "right place". |
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| Author: | weslewis [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
| iphone app!!!!! strobosoft and pro tune!!!!
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
The Peterson V-SAM is the industry standard for small shop boutiques and repair persons. |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
What do you use on your Weisseys, Tony? Ha! |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
Peterson VS-II |
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| Author: | Oubaas [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
The V-SAM is looking like a reasonable bet on my budget. Maybe someday, when I'm rich and famous, I'll spring for a Strobe Center 5000-II. But I may experiment with a tuning fork and then check it with the V-SAM and see if I can learn to get things in the ballpark by ear. As Alain pointed out, lots of things can affect the situation, even something like changing brands of strings. I guess I'll be learning as I go to some degree. Thanks for all the input, folks! Rick |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
alan stassforth wrote: What do you use on your Weisseys, Tony? Ha! Hi Alan, I have a V-SAM, although any of the Peterson tuners are great. This style of instrument is really less critical than any of the fretted instruments, but dont let that stop you striving to be all you can be. I think one of the peghead mounted tuners should be in every guitar case! |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
I have a Peterson V-SAM too (I didn't know they were considered industry standard, though). I consider a good tuner a necessary reference tool, no more a crutch than a square or a ruler, and you want those are reliable and practical as possible. I don't rely entirely on it when setting the intonation at the saddle etc., I always check these things by ear, and I find that for the accuracy needed for getting correct compensation, this is good enough. Here's a pet theory of mine: I believe it is a good idea to train your hearing to be able to do this sort of thing, and for more reasons than just getting this step right. Once you really start listening for these little things, you will discover all sorts of other interesting things about the way your instrument sounds, and perhaps pay more attention to them. String players, who learn early on to tune pairs of strings by ear until it becomes second nature, and who play without frets, are often much more sensitive to pitch issues than musicians who rely on tuners, like many guitar and bass players, in my experience. They are also really fussy about sound. |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
Arnt Rian wrote: Here's a pet theory of mine: I believe it is a good idea to train your hearing to be able to do this sort of thing, and for more reasons than just getting this step right. Once you really start listening for these little things, you will discover all sorts of other interesting things about the way your instrument sounds, and perhaps pay more attention to them. String players, who learn early on to tune pairs of strings by ear until it becomes second nature, and who play without frets, are often much more sensitive to pitch issues than musicians who rely on tuners, like many guitar and bass players, in my experience. They are also really fussy about sound. +1, Arnt! |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
Tune to concert pitch using with any reasonable tuner, as reference (usually the D), then check/set inonation by ear. Looking back, it took me about 2/3 years playing to "educate" my ear enough to tune well - still seems to be best for me, beats most guitar tuners I've used. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
A tuner will give you an accurate point of departure (say A 440). But on a guitar the rest of it, like intonation and tuning the other strings, is all about compromise. Hearing and musical sense rule: it is a fretted, tempered instrument and as such, it is very imperfect. The goal is to make it sound good and in tune everywhere, and not just the open strings and harmonics. I fail to see how a Peterson tuner, or any other gizmo, will help in that department. |
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| Author: | John Coloccia [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
I ask this question on another board too, but has anyone put a Turbo Tuner head to head with a Peterson Strobe Center or something similar? |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
murrmac wrote: an illuminating thread ... I would never have thought there were so many ears who could home into a .01 cent accuracy ... but, you live and learn. You appear to be taking both sides of the issue, Murray. Is a .1 cent tuner needed or not? I have a Peterson, but rarely use it. It provides too much information (which harmonic should I intonate?) and is too sensitive--variations in finger pressure, temperature, etc. will make it move. It simply does not make a real player's playing any more in tune to intonate with a Peterson. That .1 cent is overwhelmed by other variables. Best use I've found for it is as a prop when people visit the shop. But for that, an old StroboConn does even better. |
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| Author: | Deegatron [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tuners for Luthiers |
I've been using a program for my computer called AP tuner. free to download from download.com. just use a patch cord into the sound card. It claims to be accurate to .01 cent... I found it bounced around too much at that accuracy and turned it down to only show .1 cent. but it's the most accurate tuner I've ever used and you can "try it free" indefinatly. It also has a nice graphical display that shows the main note it's following + all of the harmonics etc.... It's a really fantastic feature especially if you have a harmonicly rich note that's really throwing the tuner for a loop, you can tune the main note based on the visual display.. When i open it on my computer it doesnt always show the tuner correctly, but i just have to minimize and then maximize the program and it shows everything... it's prolly just my computer tho... GREAT PROGRAM... and it's free.... and crazy accurate.... who can complain about that?!?!?!? |
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