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No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
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Author:  jm2 [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Greetings to OLF members. This is my first post. I am quite involved with various musical instruments, and I am looking to buy a drum sander for general shop use, that will also be adequate for when I finally get around to making my first guitar. I have a few questions.

I just called Jet, to ask where the closest dealer was, and was told that they have no Canadian distribution. I was very surprised by this. They said it's a legal issue, because there is another Jet tool company in Canada, but I can hardly believe that Jet would not try to find some way around this. Canada has a healthy woodworking community, and it seems strange that they would just give up on this market. I would swear I saw Jet gear at Canadian woodworking shows in years past. In any event, I am curious to know what others have to say about this, and whether there are any Canadians posting here that have Jet gear, perhaps purchased from the U.S. or elsewhere.

Further, would a 10-20 be adequate for tops and backs? I trust a 22-44 would be the gold standard, but guitar making would not be my primary use for it, and thus I just need something that will work, perhaps with a bit more effort. If a 10-20 will work, how well do the two passes blend? Can you see a definite overlap? And what is the thinnest that these machines typically sand to?


Any recommendations for other models would be also be welcome.
Author:  Corky Long [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
I've got a Jet 10 - 20 and find it to be fine for thicknessing tops, backs and sides. That being said, if you're going to try to thickness joined tops, it has to be set up just right - mine is, (and not through any expertise of my own idunno ).

My Jet is fine - I'd be lost without it.
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Try calling one of these numbers and see what they say.

http://jetequipment.com/en/contact.php

That jet sander will likely be sold under a number of different manufacturers names so should be available in any regard.

Shane
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
jm2 wrote:
...And what is the thinnest that these machines typically sand to?


You can sand to paper thin if you use the correct setup. But typically, I go to 0.12" at most.

Mike
Author:  David Wren [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Try Federated Tool http://www.federatedtool.com/Other/performax.html they may still have stock of the Performax Sander which is the same as Jet ... nice folks to deal with too.

David Wren http://www.wrenguitarworks.com
Author:  jm2 [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Thanks for all the informative replies. While I was doing some parallel checking (before returning to OLF), I learned of the Performax machine. This was indeed made by the same parent company as Jet (Walter Meier) but apparently, the Performax name is no longer available in Canada, except for whatever stock remains. I only found one Canadian dealer of the Performax 10-20 (Karmen tools), which did not constitute a dilemma let alone a choice of dealers. At least I now have a bona fide dilemma.

Shane, thanks for the link. Jet Equipment Canada is the company that prevents Jet from selling their machines up here. I actually called them, to express some consternation. You would think that Jet Canada would figure out a way to profit from allowing Jet machines to be sold up here, particularly since they do not carry any competing machines.

I like the Jet/Performax 10-20 machine. I think it best suits my requirements, both in terms of compactness, and capacity. Hopefully Federated or Karmen still have units. Kidding aside, barring a huge difference in cost (which seems unlikely) I will go with Federated, based on the recommendation.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
I know that you understand your requirements and your wallet as well. And I know others might disagree. But if you can find one within your budget, I would suggest getting the 16-32. That extra bit of width can mean not having to flip and sand top & backs.

Mike
Author:  jm2 [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
I do agree with you, and understand the convenience of not having to flip, but assuming Karmen's online pricing is accurate, the 10-20 comes in at about $800 versus almost $1400 for the 16-32, which is more than I would want to pay for the extra capacity I might use just once or twice a year. Delta's 16-32 is also around $1400. Also, the 10-20 is 75 pounds, versus almost double that for the 16-32, which means I can move it around more easily in my already overcrowded shop. Oh, the room looked respectably sized at one time, but they shrink as years of tool and material acquisition goes by. ;)
Author:  DannyV [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
I personally avoid anything Jet for the simple reason they have bailed out of Canada and offer 0 support and will not sell parts into Canada. Too bad. I had a Jet planer and I liked it but sold it feeling it a little unreasonable of them to not sell me replacement parts. I like my new Delta planer much better. There are no shortage of good brands and good deals in Canada.

Good Luck,
Danny
Author:  jm2 [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Hmmm... I have to confess that I might be new to drum sanders, but not remotely tools, or manufacturer support for that matter. If I bought any major tool in Canada, and it needed parts, and the company making those parts was still in business, those parts would indeed be supplied to me by the manufacturer, or one of their American distributors. Now granted, it should not take strong arming to compel companies to live up to their obligations, but sometimes it takes a certain ruthlessness, and patience to get what one needs.

Still, the warning is appreciated.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Companies do not lightly ignore huge markets. There has been plenty of regulations and tariffs imposed by both countries in order to protect native interests. Sad but true. Dont blame companies, blame politicians ( and the folks that request such regulations)

Mike
Author:  jm2 [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Perhaps in some cases and at some level bureaucracy or regulations are to blame, but in this case, it is definitely another company that is preventing Jet from selling in Canada, and that company is Jet Equipment & Tools, based in Canada. Of this I am certain, after speaking with both companies this afternoon. Apparently, the rift goes back a long time. The American Jet Co. should simply rebrand machines for the Canadian market. Mind you, I suppose this is what they did with Performax, but it was obviously unsuccessful in some way since the machines are no longer shipped here.

Having said that, one would think that American companies would never ignore any large market, as you say, but being on this side of the border, and having faced exactly this problem countless times before (wanting some tool, material, or supplies available only in the U.S.) I can tell you that some American companies do not consider the Canadian market as being significant enough to even bother making the effort. Strange, but true.
Author:  RaymundH [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
I have no idea about their quality, however, they are based in Canada thus parts and accessories may be more easily attained...
http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=16

Google around to look for review of their sanders.

Ray
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Well something is up if the base price of a 10-20 is $800. That is much higher than here.
Author:  jm2 [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Gosh I don't know about that Mike. I suppose it depends on ones definition of much. A Google Product search shows the Jet 10-20 plus going for $699, from many big retailers like Rockler and Amazon. So it's $100 more for the Performax version in Canada. Given how strong the Canadian dollar is right now, the cost north and south of the border should indeed be near near identical, but Canadians typically pay more regardless.
Author:  Darrel Friesen [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
I can vouch for that. I wanted a Kalamazoo 1" x 42" beltsander. The Canadian dealer wanted $536 FOB Toronto which meant I would still need to pay shipping to Calgary. Amazon doesn't ship it to Canada. After some research, I got it from a Knifemaking supply in Iowa for $303 including shipping. Still need to pay customs when it arrives to my door, but still much cheaper.
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Mike O'Melia wrote:
Well something is up if the base price of a 10-20 is $800. That is much higher than here.



Mike, everything in Canada is "much higher" than it is in the US, that's just how it is.....


To the OP, where are you located? Any chance you can just go down to the US and get one and bring it back home?

Also, have you thought about getting a General drum sander? You can get a 24" single or double
Author:  jm2 [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
I am near Peterborough, so a run to the U.S. is a possibility, if the Performax is not available by any other means. I got sidetracked and forgot to call today. I don't mind General machines, as I have one of their table saws, but I'm pretty sure the General 24" is going to be too big for my shop. After much more pondering, I now think the 10-20 is ideal for me.
Author:  LaurieW [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
I just went through all of this today when I ordered my drum sander, and I'm in Eastern Canada, so here is what I found for options.....

In Canada:

The Delta X5 (18") sold by Busy Bee Tools for $1499 + shipping ($265 for me in Labrador) + taxes.
Haussman Xpert (18") sold by Rona for about $1000 ($1119 in Labrador). I don't need to ship it since we have one here.

Jet who will ship to Canada: I was going to buy the Jet 22-44 with the closed stand and casters plus the infeed/outfeed tables.

http://www.Build.com will ship a Jet sander to Canada. They have a customs broker too, so they'll quote you the shipping , duty, taxes so you know the total before you buy it. No surprises when it shows up and you need to pay $300 in duty! The website wil give you the total instantly for your postal code, but mine was $1699.99 for the sander, $104 for the infeed/outfeed tables, $170 shipping and $350ish for duty/customs/taxes for nearly $2300 USD.

http://www.Globalindustrial.com will also ship to Canada. It took a week for them to get back to me just to say I had to provide a local shipping company to get a final quote. Not worth my effort after pondering for a year to buy a drum sander then they can't even return a call or email.

I found one other, http://www.toolking.com I think it was, but they were going to ship it by UPS. My experience with UPS for guitar related supplied has been very expensive for taxes/duty/customs, so I would avoid them.

I decided to go with the Rona model for 1/2 the price of the Jet 22-44. I'm not a guitar factory, in fact I don't build much at all, so I'm sure it'll work for the bit of sanding I want to do.

Hope this helps,
Author:  Bob Shanklin [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Laurie

You would be better off with the Delta, as Haussmann Tools are very low grade tool DAMHIKT [headinwall] . They are on a par with Harbour Freight Tools.

Bob
Author:  LaurieW [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Hi Bob - I wrestled with this one for quite a while (I had the Jet 22-44 in my cart on the build.com website yesterday), but I have had good luck with lesser known tools so far (King Canada bandsaw and laminate trimmer for example). I haven't finished a guitar in 3 years, so as long as it sands evenly, I should be fine. I did see a couple at a Rona store outside in Halifax, and they have a 3 year warranty, so I'll find out in 10 days just how good it is.

I'll definitely report back here either way!
Author:  jm2 [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Thanks for the comprehensive reply Laurie. It's interesting to learn there are builders in Labrador. For some reason, the idea of a guitar coming from there is very appealing. Best wishes for the first guitar parts to roll off the new sander : -)
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Laurie,
FWIW, I just bought that machine. It will do what you need for tops and backs, though very slowly of course. The day after I got it home I got more money and could have afforded the Delta. I really wish I had resisted the impulse buy for one day. It really is rinky dink and I can't wait to replace it. But I'm used to a 36" Timesaver at work so I'm very biased. That being said, I think you would be much happier if you sprang for at least the Delta.
Author:  jm2 [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
No offense intended meddlingfool ( I mean, that is after all your handle ; -)) but unless you have seen the the Delta in action (maybe you have?) I am not so sure one could conclude that it is significantly faster or superior to the Hausmann. In addition, I did some quick reading on the X5, and the reviews on average are hardly favourable. Of course even the best machines will have a few detractors, but after a while, one develops the intuition to discern which reviews have merit and which ones don't.

In any event, Rona probably has the same return policy as other major retailers like Canadian Tire, and Laurie can almost certainly return it if it is not satisfactory. My conjecture is that she made the right decision, because she's from Labrador (I'm half Newfie myself : -))
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No Jet dealers in Canada?? + other drum sander questions.
Oh, fair enough for sure. Like I said, I have the Hausmann and it works, as far as I can tell it's a rebadged Grizzly which is why I bought it at all, but having having seen each machine if I had it to do again it would be the Delta for sure. It's just a more solid unit. Even if just for the larger diameter drum and dust collection port. But hey, lot's of folk do very well with much less...
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