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Tonewood native to British Isles?
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Author:  Dave Livermore [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Tonewood native to British Isles?
I just received a commission for a guitar for a family member I've never met.
As a tribute to our ancestors and a connection to kin, I'd like to make the guitar out of materials that might grow on the isles.

Surely some of you have some suggestions.

London Plane comes to mind. Beyond that I'm at a loss.


thanks in advance for the help.

Dave
Author:  Frank Cousins [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Hi there

There are a few possibles - English Walnut, not as figured as claro, but can be quite pretty - Search for David Dyke, a UK Supplier (http://www.luthierssupplies.co.uk), he has some some that came from eithe Kew Gardens or the Windsor great park... (yes the bit the Queen owns!)

Yew can also be good but apparently splits easy... and if flamed stuff floats your boat, try flamed sycamore.

Necks can be laminated from various UK fruit woods and sycamore, but you may need something else in there

Soundboards are a problem as we simply dont have the climate for slow growth so none of our native spruces etc are really anywhere near good enough... so you might have to stick with a European Spruce...
Author:  mqbernardo [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Hi! Here in Portugal our folk instruments are more often than not made of european walnut ( J. regia) (backs, sides and neck). it works for steel strings if the walnut plank is quartered, i´ve been told. sometimes the walnut is laminated with poplar to keep costs down. bridges are commonly made of pearwood, although i´ve also seen boxwood used. as for top woods, in the past - when spruce was hard to find here in the south of europe - the more modest instruments had tops made of broad-leaf trees such as basswood or black-poplar; sometimes - like during WWII - the less dense specimens of maritime pine (P. pinaster) were also used. i believe you can find all these (save for the pine) in the UK.

cheers,
Miguel.
Author:  KHageman [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
I vote for English Brown oak for backs and sides. Get quartersawn pieces that show the great flecking figure for which English Brown Oak is famous. You might even find some that has curl in it. I am not sure what you might use for the top. Don't know what kind of spruce, cypress or cedar might be native to the British Isles.

Ken
Author:  Colin S [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
I've made two guitars using mainly UK woods, or at least B&S and necks. The first was an English Walnut OM, this guitar used an English Cherry neck as well, but had an Fiemme spruce top.

Image

The second a OO 13fret using London Plane with a curly sycamore neck (that's the original UK sycamore not the US misnomer ;) ). This one had a cedar top.

Image

Both guitars turned out well, the Walnut one was my main DADGad guitar, and my son has the London plane guitar. Both of course play towards the mahogany end of the spectrum.

Colin
Author:  Dave White [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Frank Cousins wrote:
There are a few possibles - English Walnut, not as figured as claro, but can be quite pretty - Search for David Dyke, a UK Supplier (http://www.luthierssupplies.co.uk), he has some some that came from eithe Kew Gardens or the Windsor great park... (yes the bit the Queen owns!)


My understanding is that although it grew for over a hundred years in Kew it's actually Claro Walnut - which makes it an immigrant rather than a native :mrgreen:
Author:  Michael.N. [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Small world. This is a Panormo copy made from the Kew Walnut. I was informed that it was actually American Black Walnut but planted in Kew in the 19 th century.
I still have 5 sets of the stuff left with a few already used for Baroque Guitars.
Nice wood.



Image
Author:  Bob Matthews [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Here's one I'm working on, made from English Ash. Bends like plastic but is as hard as nails. [:Y:]


Image

Image
Author:  Dave White [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Michael.N. wrote:
Small world. This is a Panormo copy made from the Kew Walnut. I was informed that it was actually American Black Walnut but planted in Kew in the 19 th century.
I still have 5 sets of the stuff left with a few already used for Baroque Guitars.
Nice wood.



Image


Michael,

Lovely guitar and wood. I was basing it on what Roger Bucknall wrote here on the Fylde Guitar website (go to the Claro Walnut Arial and click) which he describes as Claro from a tree planted at Kew Gardens by Queen Victoria and blown down in the 1987 hurrican.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Yes it's from the same tree, planted by Queen Vic. I'm just relating what David Dyke told me. I'm certain he said it was ABW but differed in colour a little because of the soil and climate conditions. It may well be Claro though. I haven't the experience to tell either way.
Author:  nickton [ Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Never heard of London plane. Is that the one that looks like silky oak?
Author:  Frank Cousins [ Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Spoke to Dave Dyke this morning - you guys are right in that the wood I was referring to is indeed ABW :oops: - my sets had a lovely subtle flame :-)

He did say he was in pocession of another log, huge, in his words, of English Walnut... yet to be resawn but as native as you can get :)
Author:  mqbernardo [ Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
nickton wrote:
Never heard of London plane. Is that the one that looks like silky oak?

Hi!
The "london" plane, as brits like to call it, is though to be an hybrid from the species Platanus ocidentalis (american plane) and the turkish plane (P. orientalis). I´ve also heard that it could be a cultivar of P. orientalis (i suppose, chiefly, because it´s on wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platanus_%C3%97_acerifolia , but am yet to see any substantial evidence of that). The scientific name is Platanus x acerifolia or Platanus x hispanica. It is though to have occured spontaneously in spain for the first time (hence it´s name) and is a very common tree in cities nowadays (at least here in europe), where it´s polution tolerance, pest resistance, rapid growth, relative meagre nutrient and soil necessities and a large twig vs. root system size ratio make it rather appealing for city authorities.

it also yelds the curious looking wood you can see on colin´s guitar (the 2nd one, IIRC).

hope this helps,
Miguel.
Author:  David LaPlante [ Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Not tonewood, but I bought some laburnu(a?)m to make marquetry with a while back.
Is anyone familiar with this wood and can tell me something about it?
Author:  Dave Livermore [ Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
So to recap my newfound knowlege from this thread,
English Sycamore is actually European Maple.
American Sycamore (AKA London Plane) is not even a close relative to English Sycamore.

Do I have this right?

If so, I'm excited to work with European Maple. I'll likely top this instrument with Douglas Fir as it seems to be the only conifer that grows over there (whether native or not is sure a separate question I'll have to explore)


Maybe I'll trim it in Walnut for the contrast. Or maybe I'll sunburst the top, back and neck. I can envision it now and It's beautiful!

Thanks for the help.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Douglas Fir grows in the UK but it is not an indigenous species. It was introduced sometime in the 19 th century. Given that time frame I think we can safely say that it has gained it's naturalisation as a British citizen.
The only conifer that is considered native is Scots Pine.
Author:  Colin S [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
David LaPlante wrote:
Not tonewood, but I bought some laburnu(a?)m to make marquetry with a while back.
Is anyone familiar with this wood and can tell me something about it?



David, here's a good guide to Laburnum, it's a common garden tree here in the UK, it's showy yellow racemes of flowers in spring are it's main decorative asset. The seeds however are very poisonous, and have caused a number of fatalities in children. As far as the wood use is concerned, it is used as a decorative veneer on furniture, where the veneer is made up of 'oysters' cut at an angle from the branches, the furniture in the link shows the effect.

http://www.kewatch.co.uk/fm/20Laburnum.html

Colin
Author:  Michael.N. [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
David LaPlante wrote:
Not tonewood, but I bought some laburnu(a?)m to make marquetry with a while back.
Is anyone familiar with this wood and can tell me something about it?


My experience with Laburnum is limited to 2 fretboard blanks. Still to be used, although I have planed a show face.
It's a rather light Yellowish/Brown on a fresh cut surface but oxidises to a dark Brown. A marked colour change.
Seems to be a touch softer than EIR if my fingernail test is anything to go by, probably hard enough for fretboard use. It doesn't seem as dense as EIR, so probably reasonably hard considering it's weight.
Fretboard width is fairly easy to obtain, anything wider and it becomes increasingly difficult to obtain decent samples, or at least it is in the UK.
Author:  David LaPlante [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Thanks!
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Go have a look at Talarico Hardwoods.
Their specialty is Quartered Oak, and they have done quite a bit of work in the UK, reclaiming estate trees, and other goodies. It would be an irony to build with UK timbers that were available in the US, but at least they grew there.

http://www.talaricohardwoods.com/imports.htm

Steve
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Colin, it's always a pleasure seeing your work.
Michael, Woodcutter, beautiful examples as well!

Steve
Author:  mqbernardo [ Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood native to British Isles?
Dave Livermore wrote:
So to recap my newfound knowlege from this thread,
English Sycamore is actually European Maple.
American Sycamore (AKA London Plane) is not even a close relative to English Sycamore.

Do I have this right?
yup, i believe so.
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