Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:00 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 73 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:36 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:47 pm
Posts: 1624
Location: United States
First name: Larry
Last Name: Hawes
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I located a 1 HP motor off a Craftsman 14" band saw today and the output shaft is something strange like 14 mm. Oh the joys now of locating a 14mm pulley/sheave for the output shaft. Only posting this as a warning to watch for the little things.

_________________
Thank You and Best To All


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:57 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:50 am
Posts: 361
First name: herry
Last Name: trismono
City: malang
State: east java
Zip/Postal Code: 65142
Country: Indonesia
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I just download a plan of Pat.. I have a question for the DRUM, can I go with metal (aluminium) drum, that's from unuse photocopy drum, with 11cm dia and 36cm length.. oops_sign


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:57 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:31 am
Posts: 936
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Please take the following only as an observation that I find interesting. It's not something I care about and is not meant to be a complaint or whining. It's certainly not directed at anyone on this forum. It's an observation only that I think others may find interesting.

The Youtube video that Matthias Wandel of Woodgears.ca fame put up of me with my thickness sander is now up over 160,000 hits. As you can imagine, I receive email on a regular basis from all over the world asking me questions about the thickness sander. I always respond to these promptly. The thing that has surprised me is that nobody (i.e. zero) has ever responded to thank me for answering their questions. The only exception to this is when they have further questions. Then they will start by thanking me for answering their first round of questions before asking their new ones.

As I said, I don't care but I am surprised as I always thank people that take the trouble to answer any questions I have sent to them and I notice that most people on this forum do the same. Am I just old and out of touch with what is polite in this age of the internet?

Pat

_________________
There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:05 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:47 pm
Posts: 1624
Location: United States
First name: Larry
Last Name: Hawes
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I usually save my thanks for after I've completed a project - like in this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=38710&start=25

And I'll do the same after I finish this project.

All I know about life is that we as human beings will see where we're looking and if ever we do something looking for thanks it can be a mighty hard thing to see - depending, again on where we're looking. I'm thinking that sometimes when I respond there's an implied thank you if not an outright declaration of same, but I do have a general 'Thank You' in my signature because I am genuinely grateful for every bit of knowledge shared on this forum.

Thank You Pat!

_________________
Thank You and Best To All


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:39 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:43 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Southern IN
First name: Robert
Last Name: Hosmer
State: IN
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
LarryH wrote:
I located a 1 HP motor off a Craftsman 14" band saw today and the output shaft is something strange like 14 mm. Oh the joys now of locating a 14mm pulley/sheave for the output shaft. Only posting this as a warning to watch for the little things.

Rather than hunt down a solid sheave with the specific bore diameter, you may be better off using a tapered-bore sheave (2-pc.). That would allow you to use the appropriate bushing. (I know that 14mm bushings are available.)
Of course, this means that the smallest sheave (pulley) you can use at the motor would be slightly over 3" OD, so you would have to use correspondingly larger sheave at the drum.
Bushings run $5-10 each. Nothing to be concerned about if you're saving a bunch on the motor.

_________________
Always have plenty of sandpaper; it's rough out there!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:29 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:47 pm
Posts: 1624
Location: United States
First name: Larry
Last Name: Hawes
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Robert Hosmer wrote:
LarryH wrote:
I located a 1 HP motor off a Craftsman 14" band saw today and the output shaft is something strange like 14 mm. Oh the joys now of locating a 14mm pulley/sheave for the output shaft. Only posting this as a warning to watch for the little things.

Rather than hunt down a solid sheave with the specific bore diameter, you may be better off using a tapered-bore sheave (2-pc.). That would allow you to use the appropriate bushing. (I know that 14mm bushings are available.)
Of course, this means that the smallest sheave (pulley) you can use at the motor would be slightly over 3" OD, so you would have to use correspondingly larger sheave at the drum.
Bushings run $5-10 each. Nothing to be concerned about if you're saving a bunch on the motor.


Thanks so much for posting that advice Robert. I'll begin my search today for the parts you recommend. It's been a nightmare trying to resolve this 14mm issue. Again thanks very much for the advice.

_________________
Thank You and Best To All


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:23 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:47 pm
Posts: 1624
Location: United States
First name: Larry
Last Name: Hawes
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Public THANK YOU to Robert for some amazing help. He just sent a PM with links to the parts I needed and they are on the way as I type this. Simply amazing world we live in. Thanks again Rob, for the help.

_________________
Thank You and Best To All


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:41 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:33 pm
Posts: 35
First name: John
Last Name: LaTorre
City: Sacramento
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95820
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Just when you thought this thread was dead, dead, dead ...

I've taken advantage of my copious free time (thanks to COVID-19) to build a thicknessing sander of my own, mostly following the Pat Hawley design (thanks, Pat!). I've got the discs cut out and ready to bore out for the axle holes. But I have two questions/comments:

1. I notice that Pat's plan called for making your own drive pulley, but somebody mentioned that pulleys with 1" drive holes are available. Would anybody know of a source for these?

2. I've decided to go with the Velcro hook-and-loop sandpaper, and there was a mention that this was available from Woodmaster. I went to their site, but I'm not sure about what their products are.

Is this the stuff to attach to the drum itself?

https://www.woodmastertools.com/shop/ac ... ro-mats-3/


And is this the actual sandpaper stuff, with the corresponding velcro?

https://www.woodmastertools.com/shop/ac ... -150-grit/

And I guess I should ask about other suppliers for the Velcro sandpaper and base.

Finally, I want to thank all the people who have participated in this thread. It's been a real learning experience.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:03 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:28 pm
Posts: 188
First name: Chuck
Last Name: Skarsaune
City: Butler
State: TN
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
1” bore pulleys are available at McMaster Carr, Tractor Supply, and Northern Tool, off the top of my head.

I got my hook and loop paper from Klingspor.

I got my Velcro for the drum at Lowe’s.

Never asked Pat a question but did build a thickness sander based on seeing his.

Thanks Pat, if you’re listening.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:39 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:23 pm
Posts: 259
First name: Brad
Last Name: Hall
City: Windsor
State: Ca.
Zip/Postal Code: 95492
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I built one of similar design several years ago. The discs were just pressure fit over the shaft. Very tight, had to pound them on and glued them to each other as I went. No way they would ever spin. I also weed pre finished flooring for the table top. I made my dust collector/shield out of 1/4” plexiglass. I like being able to see both sides as the wood passes through. I put a dust collection port top center and it works very well. As mentioned earlier, small steps to remove material is the key.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
Brad Hall
Mystic Dawg Guitars



These users thanked the author BradHall for the post: Hans Mattes (Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:18 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:12 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:33 pm
Posts: 35
First name: John
Last Name: LaTorre
City: Sacramento
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95820
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Well, I'm proceeding with the build ... I have the discs cut out and dry-mounted on the shaft, I have the motor, pulleys, and belt. The bench has been wired, and I'm ready to start actually fastening things together.

My thanks to everyone who has helped me, from Pat on down to those who gave me links to suppliers.

I do have one question before I start actually positioning the drum on the table. The plans don't give a definite dimension to the location of the drum, although from the plans generated from Pat's design, it looks like it's about a third of the way forward from the hinge. Was that determined to be the best position from experiment, or was that just the way it was drawn?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:00 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:23 pm
Posts: 259
First name: Brad
Last Name: Hall
City: Windsor
State: Ca.
Zip/Postal Code: 95492
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I built mine with a plexiglass hood. The dust port Is top center and very effective. I also feed from the side. Mine is set up at the garage door and I use a large shop fan facing outside while sanding. Dust mask also. I use adhesive backed sandpaper. The mdf donuts were very tight going into the 1” shaft. I did apply glue to each successive face. Couldn’t slip on the shaft if I tried. Nice job on yours.

......after I posted this I see I already posted with a photo. CRS strikes again.

_________________
Brad Hall
Mystic Dawg Guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:58 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:33 pm
Posts: 35
First name: John
Last Name: LaTorre
City: Sacramento
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95820
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
BradHall wrote:
The mdf donuts were very tight going into the 1” shaft. I did apply glue to each successive face. Couldn’t slip on the shaft if I tried.


I used 3/4" cabinet-grade plywood, not mdf, since I had it anyway. They slipped onto the shaft a little more easily than Brad's did, but I took a friend's advice and roughed up the shaft with a file to create cross-grooves, and glued the discs on with a marine-grade two-part epoxy, gluing them together as well as to the shaft. I'm convinced that nothin' ain't goin' nowhere.

I'm now at the state where I'm truing up the drum and getting it ready for the sandpaper. But two more questions arise. (I've already PMed Pat Hawley about this, but I thought I'd pick the brains of the hive mind here.)

First, what is the preferred grit for thicknessing softer woods like spruce and cedar? And what would be the grit of choice for rosewood and walnut, which are the two main woods I use for backs and sides.

Second, I was instructed that once the wood has been touched by sandpaper, it leaves enough grit to dull planes and scrapers. I don't mind the planes, since the thinknessing sander was supposed to replace their use, but I do like to use scrapers on sides and especially on soundboards, because they do a better job of "leveling" the alternating soft and hard parts of the wood. Is it still possible to use the scrapers, with the realization that I'll be sharpening them more, or am I stuck with sandpaper for the finishing steps now?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:37 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5398
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Speaking personally I only drum sand to a maximum of P150, then go to an ROS or hand sand with a block and I haven't noticed any problem with grit left by abrasives in general.
After a brush off I haven't seen or felt anything left embedded in the wood, not at the lowest or highest grits, but I do use branded quality abrasives, not point in using anything less.
More trouble with wood/resin embedded in the abrasives gaah

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:36 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:17 am
Posts: 995
Location: United States
City: Tyler
State: Texas
I generally use 80 grit on back/side wood with mine (sometimes 60 with cocobolo). I get it down near final and then finish with 100 grit. With spruce/cedar, I use 80 first and final with 100 or 120. Then random orbit 5 inch with 180 or 220 for all woods.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:09 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:12 pm
Posts: 3290
First name: Bryan
Last Name: Bear
City: St. Louis
State: Mo
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I pretty much just use 80 or 60 grit. I don’t see my shop made sander as a means to get to my surface finish. I only use it to get (close) to final thickness and evenness. All the parts get further scraping g or sanding after they see the thickness sander. Heavy grit allows me to get there faster with less loading.

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:21 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5398
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Quote:
Second, I was instructed that once the wood has been touched by sandpaper, it leaves enough grit to dull planes and scrapers.

Has anyone had experience of that?

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:54 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:03 pm
Posts: 569
First name: Toonces
Last Name: the Cat
City: New Smyrna Beach
State: FL
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
No, this is incorrect. Sandpaper does not leave behind grit that can't be removed either via vacuuming, blowing, brushing, etc. Obviously, you don't want to sand something and then take a plane to it without cleaning off the piece first.

I would like to reaffirm a previous post about dust collection. Please be careful, folks -- dust is a very serious health hazard. This is especially true for luthiers that work with exotic woods. You do not want any of this to reach your lungs. A good dust collector should be the very first tool that you buy and if you have the shop space - you need to be buying a high quality cyclone if you plan on devoting much time to this hobby.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:02 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:33 pm
Posts: 35
First name: John
Last Name: LaTorre
City: Sacramento
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95820
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Thanks for the sandpaper advice. I'd heard that bit about sandpaper and scrapers from an old cabinetmaker. It may have been true with earlier types of sandpaper, or with cheaper sandpaper. I'll try the sanding/scraping regimen and see if it really does the damage to the scrapers that I'd feared.

And I built the dust hood and attached it to the dust collector before I even started truing up the drum.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:23 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5398
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
JLT wrote:
Thanks for the sandpaper advice. I'd heard................ It may have been true with earlier types of sandpaper, or with cheaper sandpaper. ................

Yes, I remember glass-paper, actually bought and used it one time, terrible stuff.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:04 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:11 am
Posts: 2142
Pat Hawley wrote:
Please take the following only as an observation that I find interesting. It's not something I care about and is not meant to be a complaint or whining. It's certainly not directed at anyone on this forum. It's an observation only that I think others may find interesting.

The Youtube video that Matthias Wandel of Woodgears.ca fame put up of me with my thickness sander is now up over 160,000 hits. As you can imagine, I receive email on a regular basis from all over the world asking me questions about the thickness sander. I always respond to these promptly. The thing that has surprised me is that nobody (i.e. zero) has ever responded to thank me for answering their questions. The only exception to this is when they have further questions. Then they will start by thanking me for answering their first round of questions before asking their new ones.

As I said, I don't care but I am surprised as I always thank people that take the trouble to answer any questions I have sent to them and I notice that most people on this forum do the same. Am I just old and out of touch with what is polite in this age of the internet?

Pat

Pat,
To your point, over the years here and there I have sent materials to people. Sometimes it was wood or in one case I remember I sent a guy some special potentiometers (no charge, including shipping)....Never even got a Thank You- I found it odd...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:24 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:33 pm
Posts: 35
First name: John
Last Name: LaTorre
City: Sacramento
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95820
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Well, there's another home-built thickness sander in the world now.

I just applied the sandpaper to the drum, which was trued up both to get it perfectly round and to test the whole drive-train and dust-collecting systems.

I would have tested it today, but I quit working on it when I started to burn my hand picking up a socket wrench. The joys of working in the Sacramento area in the summertime. But at least the air was breathable today.

At the advice of a fellow woodworker who's had a thicknessing sander for twenty years now, I've decided to go with 120 grit sandpaper. He says that if the wood is reasonably well finished to begin with, that's all he's ever used. If he has to take it down a lot, he just makes more passes. (He says that now that he's retired, time is no longer money.) But I can put whatever I want on it and change it out easily, since I've got the velcro backed stuff.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:06 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:26 pm
Posts: 455
First name: Carl
Last Name: Dickinson
City: Forest Ranch
State: California
Zip/Postal Code: 95942
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Get some 80 grit too. You'll need it for thicknessing. Resinous woods clog that 120 pretty fast. I take plates down to .125 or less with 80, then smooth it out with the 120 if you want, but usually the RO sander with 120 - 220 works OK to prep it for finishing. I use sandpaper covered, 3/4" sleds (tables), sized for back or sides, to support those thin pieces too. They can be sanded to fine tune the flatness of your drum adjustment.
Yep, the air quality was better here today too, but yesterday was baaad! Wearing a N-95 to work in the yard. gaah


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 73 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 48 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com