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Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31767		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  mqbernardo [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
Hi all, i have some questions regarding Mr. Stock´s method for sharpening (for those eventually unaware: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T1p3vfV ... er&list=UL ) that i would like to see enlightened.

If i understand correctly it goes from a coarse diamond stone to a norton ceramic 8000 grit waterstone. Something with the intrinsic qualities of the norton stone makes it possible (again, if i got it right). He also states that a 4000 / 8000 Norton combo (like the one in the LN sharpening kit) might be a better alternative. As i live in europe, and it is difficult for me to get such stones here (at least that i am aware), my questions would be:

- would it be OK to use a DMT duo sharp 325 / 600 grit ( http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/product ... detail.jsf ) instead of the extra coarse / coarse one Mr. Stock uses in the video. i can not find a bigger diamond "stone" with said grit.

- if yes, would the 325 diamond stone be good enough for flattening the waterstones?

- is the naniwa 3000 / 8000 combo superstone a good alternative to the norton? i´ve red somewhere that the naniwa stones worn out pretty fast, and so would i be better of going for two separate stones instead of a combo (20 mm of 8000 stone instead of just 10 mm) ?
Author:  Mark Fogleman [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
I have the 1000/5000/8000 grit Naniwa Superstone set which replaced a Norton set damaged during a move. They are 10mm thick, mounted on a plastic base with rubber feet and have worn much slower than the previous Norton set. The Superstones are slightly slower to me on A2 steel vs the Norton but do not require the constant flattening and pre-soaking. Just a spritz of water before you start and go. When finished, a spritz, wipe off with a paper towel and put them away.
Author:  weslewis [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
timely stuff as I am upgrading planes and chisels...I have a king waterstone which is a 1000 and 6000 combination stone...is that too coarse?...and looking at DMT website there seems to be some good options , like the extra extra fine...for use after the coarse grits...
anyone using diamond stones only???
Author:  york [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
I just got the Duo Sharp 325/600 and the Norton 4000/8000 from sharpeningsupplies.com. Just getting started with them, but so far, so good.
Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
weslewis wrote:
timely stuff as I am upgrading planes and chisels...I have a king waterstone which is a 1000 and 6000 combination stone...is that too coarse?...and looking at DMT website there seems to be some good options , like the extra extra fine...for use after the coarse grits...
anyone using diamond stones only???


You don't need to buy new stones (unless you want to.) The King is fine both literally and figuratively. First of all, having the skill to sharpen is more important than having the latest and greatest. So worry more about technique. Second the only time you need a super, super edge is when the planed surface is the final surface. ( A glue surface is not what I am talking about here) I can't think of anywhere on a guitar where that is the case. You can achieve hair popping sharpness with the stone you have. I would add the coarse diamond stone for rough shaping and fast edge forming if you don't already have one. Plus the King will flatten with a piece of plate glass and some wet dry sandpaper. I like to use the 220 drywall sanding screen stuff. A lot of people recommend using a diamond stone to flatten the water stone. Not needed with the older King stones. I am not going to use a $100 diamond stone to flatten my other stones when a 50 cent piece of sandpaper will do it. Maybe you need to with the Shaptons and the other newer hard water stones but not with the one you have.
So you are good to go. Buy a nice plane with the money you saved. While you are at it save yourself some more money and get a few old chisels and tune them up properly.
L.
Author:  mqbernardo [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
thanks for the options, guys (and specially Mr. Stock for the videos).
i think the chosera is out of my intended budget, maybe i´ll stick with the superstone.
this is all quite new to me, so i can´t help but to read all these stone´s qualities in pretty much abstract terms. at some time i´ll have to quit pondering what´s "the best" solution and try it out to see if it works for me. i´ll still look a bit further to see if i can find a norton around these parts, but it looks like diamond coarse / fine plus naniwa is where i´ll be at.

again, thanks all!

cheers,
Miguel.
Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
I am talking about how if I am doing a piece of furniture and hand planing my final surface, the show surface, I will go for that super duper , extra, extra sharp edge.
The plane I use is called a polishing plane, so it is in the name so to speak.
It is a bit of a question of sharp relative to what. What I call workman like sharp is what I can achieve very quickly. It is what a lot of folks would call extremely sharp, mirror sharp.
It takes twice as long to get 1% more sharp. You don't need that for carving braces, chopping brace pockets, flattening tops, shooting edge joints. Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating a less than sharp blade for anything. But I can get a edge in less than a minute that would satisfy everyone here. If I was in a planing contest to see who could pull the longest shaving I would spend more time on the edge. I am very fussy about my edges but I also want to get the dang thing sharp and get to work.
The OP was worried about his King 1000/6000. Yes you can get a slightly better edge with a 8000 but the difference is very minimal and of no conciquince to what we do. There is way more difference in proper technique. I have old King water stones and do just fine thank you. I have been using them for almost 30 years. (Second set) I use then with no problems with the few A 2 blades I have. They are capable of the sharpest of edges. I have heard that the newer stones cut better on the A 2 and the like but I am not going to drop any $ on new stones when my old ones work perfectly well. When they wear out I will look at the newer ones.
So mainly I was trying (in my long winded way) to assure the OP what he had was just fine. I think too many times folks get caught up in having to have the so called best this and that, the latest and greatest, jigs for this, gadgets for that. Especially newbies. I just don't want them to worry about that stuff. There are plenty of other things to worry about. I think it all started with PF fliers. You remember, the shoes that made you jump higher and run faster. Well, I think I got some and the neighbor could still out run me and still out jump me. Hmmm, must need some other type of shoes......
L.
Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
Todd Stock wrote:
Any finishing stone will work - the difference will be in speed..


Don't you think the speed thing is more of a matter of technique. (No disputing that the newer stones are faster. I have never used one BTW.)
I use the same system as you do. We have come to the same system independently. Co- evolution. The only difference is I haven't got new stones.

I go right from my diamond to my 8000 with out any intermediate stone unless the honing edge starts getting too big.
Thinking about it right now I can see that the bigger the blade the more the speed thing would come in to play. With my home made planes my biggest blade is 2" and I rarely use that. Mostly 1 1/2" and narrower. Anyway my main point is that you don't have to go out and buy a whole new set of stones if you have what the OP has. Learn to use them.
Todd Stock wrote:
I gave the Kings away, along with my washita and arkansas stones (my dad got them...including the super fine nearly translucent hard black).


No say it ain't so. I wish I knew you then. (Well that doesn't mean you would have given them to me :D ) I would have coveted that hard black.
L.
Author:  alan stassforth [ Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
These are the stones I have. The one on the right is a piece of crap, coarse/medium, the middle is a hard Arkansas oilstone, and the last is a "Splex" 1000 grit dry.
Using Todds method of 2 angles, coarse/medium- tip it up for the hone,
I got amazing results with the 2 stones on the right.
Thanks Todd!
3 questions, what grit is a hard Arkansas oilstone, why is the dry stone called dry, (I soak it in water first, seems to work a nice slurry when wet), and, what grit should I level the Splex with?
I definitely need to upgrade the med/coarse.
Author:  york [ Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
Check this chart:
http://silversmithing.com/1abrasives.htm
Author:  alan stassforth [ Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
I guess I forgot to attach the pic.
Don't laugh at the one on the right, it works.
The Arkansas one was my pa's, and I hardly use the waterstone.
Author:  James Orr [ Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
Todd Stock wrote:
and really expensive tech socks...


Just curious, but some kind of compression socks like Skins?
Author:  James Orr [ Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
I live and die in my Smartwool socks. Have you ever tried minimalist shoes?

http://birthdayshoes.com/new-balance-nb ... ail-review

I don't run, but I really like them for the workouts we do. I have as much invested in our home gym as the shop at this point :?
Author:  mqbernardo [ Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Questions about Todd Stock´s sharpening method
Todd Stock wrote:
Just to clarify...two stone sharpening approach is pretty common - it's what I use, but it's not something I invented.
Well, i´m sorry if i gave that impression with the title. it was just a convenient and fast way of naming it and getting "personalized" help.


cheers,
Miguel.
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