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| Can HHG Harm Lacquer? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31573 |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can HHG Harm Lacquer? |
I tried HHG for the first time this evening to glue on a mad rose bridge. All seemed to go well, and after clamping, I got a damp cloth and stick to clean up the glue squeeze out. Most of the glue cleaned up just fine, but I have a few areas where I either can't get the glue off or the glue has damaged the finish. Hard to tell. Attachment: IMGP1203-1.jpg Prior to gluing on the bridge, I brushed some HHG on the masked area, then I brushed glue on the bridge, positioned, and clamped it. I think the areas impacted are areas where I may have brushed glue on the finish when applying glue to the masked area. I was working quickly but wasn't overly concerned if I got a little glue on the finish as I thought it would simply clean off with warm water later. Warm water cleaned off everything else, however, the area shown above and several other areas like it remain. My finish is EM6000, which is 2 weeks cured. I can't believe 140 degree temp would damage the lacquer. Anyone have any insight as to what is going on? I don't want to, but if I have to remove the bridge, level the finish and shoot a few fresh coats of lacquer I will. I was expecting other sorts of trouble using HHG the first time, not something like this! Thanks, Ken |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can HHG Harm Lacquer? |
I've cleaned up HHG squeeze out on EM6000 with the 140 degree hot water out of the glue pot like Todd said. No problems and I get a lot of squeeze out. I'm guessing your finish is fine. Maybe your water was not hot enough. |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can HHG Harm Lacquer? |
Thanks guys. I was thinking it was glue, but was surprised I couldn't clean it off like the other. But if it is the glue I first applied to the masked area, it would have had longer to set. I'll hit it with some 140+ water this evening and see if I can clean it up. I've got one more bridge to glue on tonight as well. Still trying to figure out the best way to heat this stuff. I have a glue pot, but when I mix up small batches, it easily skims over. Thinking of using a smaller jar this evening. Ken |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can HHG Harm Lacquer? |
Float a small plastic squeeze bottle of glue in the pot. No more moisture escape, and easier to apply  And it does take a while of brushing water and wiping off to get a lump of dry hide glue fully dissolved. You could put some water (any temperature) on it a while before you go at it, to pre-soak it a bit. Then when you give it the first dose of hot water, however much is already saturated will come right off. |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can HHG Harm Lacquer? |
Okay, I spent a fair amount of time this evening with some fairly hot water, and could not remove the markings from the glue. Apparently the HHG did have some sort of reaction with the EM6000 finish I used on the top. I am going to post a similar thread on Target's forum and see if anyone else has run across this. Bummer, this throws a wrench into my foray into HHG. Ken |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can HHG Harm Lacquer? |
There was a thread recently on Deglue Goo. (http://de-gluegoo.com/) It was claimed you could use it to remove glue residue from a guitar finish without damage. Might be worth checking out before taking drastic measures. |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can HHG Harm Lacquer? |
I have that deglue goo stuff. It works great for aliphatic resins like titebond. Not sure how it works with hide glue. But based on a pretty close inspection, I do have damage to my finish. Hot water did not even make the surface of the markings slimy. I did post a similar message on TC's instrument maker's forum. I'll see if anyone else has run across similar issues. I am supposed to enter this guitar into a show on Monday and have no time now to repair it unless I try to level sand the areas with 1000G paper and rebuff. Otherwise, I'll have to enter it as is and repair it afterwards. Why do these things always happen on tight deadlines?! Ken |
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| Author: | David Rice [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can HHG Harm Lacquer? |
Hide Glue shrinks as it dries and will grab finish causing all kinds of nasty situations. Be sure to remove any hide glue drops or smears as soon as possible Glass artists take advantage of hide glue's ability to bond with glass, applying hide glue to glass. As the glue hardens it shrinks, chipping the glass. Dave |
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can HHG Harm Lacquer? |
Ken, I am sorry that happened! I just glued down a bridge with HHG onto an EM6000 finished guitar and didn't have any issues. The only places it was able to sit though were little beads along the front edge that the clamps covered. I would be interested to hear what feedback you get from the Target forum. How bad is the abrasion? If you leveled and then taped off the bridge could you sneak the buffing wheel in there? Maybe even one of those foam pads in a drill? |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can HHG Harm Lacquer? |
Hey Burton, good to see your mug again! I'll shoot some better pictures tonight. Yeah, I was wondering as well about how well I could level sand the area and buff with the bridge still on. My buffer is actually a pneumatic polisher that uses 4" foam pads. It works extermely well, and I was able to buff around the f/b extension on my previous Les Paul build without issue. If my alternative is to remove the bridge, I might just as well try your suggestion first. As I have a show next week, I just don't want to make it worse prior to that. Afterwards, I'll have time to do whatever I need to. I'll be extra careful to keep the glue off the lacquer when I install the bridge on my other guitar. No real feedback from Target yet. Ken |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can HHG Harm Lacquer? |
Okay, I did some experimenting tonight, and I think I figured it out. I had set up a heat lamp above my guitar top to keep the area warm while I glued everything up. This appears to have softened the lacquer enough so that when the hot hide glue hit it, the glue left a mark. I didn't realize the top was that warm, it didn't feel that warm to the touch, but apparently it was warm enough. Lesson learned! Won't do that again  I think I will try to relevel a small area and buff it to see if I can clean it up without removing the bridge. Thanks for the input. Ken |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can HHG Harm Lacquer? |
Ah, so finally the mystery is solved. Yeah, the heat lamp shouldn't be necessary, unless maybe if the room is very cold. A warm bridge will keep the glue liquid long enough to get it clamped, provided it goes fairly smoothly. You can lay your forearm on the soundboard for a little while to warm it a bit too, if you want. I only heat the bridge to my own body temperature as well. Who needs a heat gun
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| Author: | Ken C [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can HHG Harm Lacquer? |
Yeah, thanks Dennis and Filippo!! Where were you guys two nights ago!!  Ken |
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