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| Hydraulic Press http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31552 |
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| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hydraulic Press |
It’s all about glue lines. My electric bodies are made by laminating dissimilar wood plates together and sculpting the face to reveal decorative wooden contours. The angle of the cut is so shallow (5 degree slope) that the glue lines are accentuated when revealed. The four small pieces shown are tests….conducted because I knew, and could alter, the amount of pressure used to laminate these little parts prior to making the commitment to build the whole hydraulic press. It was determined that 200 p.s.i. would produce a good result. Knowing that, I paid an engineer to determine how much deflection would occur on these aluminum plates when various pressures were used. At 80,000 pounds I get a .006” bow…..acceptable. The other trick is to learn to lay down the glue very evenly….for which I made a small grooved spreading tool that worked very nicely. I brush on epoxy then squeegee it off with this tool which leaves little corn row beads of epoxy .1” apart and .02” inches high. I just got it together yesterday for the first time and there it is applying 50,000 lbs on my first glue up. I love tooling. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
That's hot. If a tool can be hot that is. If so, that's hot. |
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| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
Don Williams wrote: If a tool can be hot..... That's a simple matter of adding some heating elements and a microprocessor.  That epoxy will fully cure in 15 minutes at 160F. Ok....it's not THAT simple. One would need a set of insulated plates between the plattens to isolate them....but it's doable.
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
I dont build a lot of electrics .. but THAT is WAY F'N cool ...... talk about easy glue ups. Sweet. |
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| Author: | Dave Fifield [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
Very impressive tool Stuart....excellent!! Dave F. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
nice tool . |
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| Author: | Pat Hawley [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
Why does this tool remind me of the movie: "The Fly"?   I like it! Pat |
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| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Stuart, any tools in your shop that aren't studly? Yeah...the ones I have to buy. I guessed the engineer would say that 2.25" plate was going to be about right but he called for 2.5" and I happened to have a whole bunch of 2.75" laying around. So yeah, it's a little studly...but not by much. |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
I take it you're not a believer in the 'starved glue joint' myth? ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") I've been itching to make something similar for years, but another project always gets in the way. Three Kurt vises with tall jaws work pretty well as a hydraulic neck press in the interim. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
Dude, that is quite the machine Sure beats my 150lb press (i.e. I sit on top of the thing).I always enjoy watching your progress. Our building styles are polar opposites. Yours with all the fancy power tools and CNC to get it just right and repeatable. Mine... pretty much a monkey with a sharp piece of metal to chop at a stick with. And yet we come out with more or less the same result (granted, you build electrics and I build acoustics, but I do have an electric planned). I bet that press would be great to laminate veneers for acoustic backs as well. Combine with laminated sides using the same veneer as the outer layer, and you could have some fine looking guitars that are cheap and enviro-friendly
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| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
Bob Garrish wrote: I take it you're not a believer in the 'starved glue joint' myth? If 200-400 psi doesn't starve a glue joint then that myth is busted. Hehe...I still use Kurt vices for the neck laminates. But I have more cylinders and a plan for that too
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| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
DennisK wrote: I sit on top of the thing. If you sit on your hands while you do it you can still advertise "hand-made" guitars. I saw a shot of a guy who raises up a corner of his house and sets it back down on his laminate. "House-made" sounds interesting but I dont' think "butt-made" will sell many of them. Hmmmm....Bumstruck Guitars? Thanks for the nice comments, all! |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
Zlurgh wrote: DennisK wrote: I sit on top of the thing. If you sit on your hands while you do it you can still advertise "hand-made" guitars. I saw a shot of a guy who raises up a corner of his house and sets it back down on his laminate. "House-made" sounds interesting but I dont' think "butt-made" will sell many of them. Hmmmm....Bumstruck Guitars? Thanks for the nice comments, all!  Foot-made in this case Lay the top on the floor, glue on the bridge plate, set a wood block on it, a brick on top of that to maintain a bit of pressure for later, then perch on top of the brick for a minute or two until the glue is gelled up. Want another 50-100lbs of pressure? Stand up and push on the ceiling I use my feet quite a lot actually. A third hand would be better, but you use what you got. I'd be pretty grumpy if I had to shuffle clamps around for every little thing that can be held in place with a foot while working. 'course, it helps to have extremely flexible legs. |
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| Author: | NWflyonly [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
Ah there's really nothing quite like tool porn is there? |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
I believe I see a Machinist background here . Calling on Machine shops everyday as I do I would have to say , Thats as impressive as I have seen in a while ! Nice work !
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
Looks nice! I need something like that to press all my frets at once in my fretboards. Do you plan on makeing a caul for it to do that as well?
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| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
Mark Groza wrote: Looks nice! I need something like that to press all my frets at once in my fretboards. Do you plan on makeing a caul for it to do that as well?Nah...that's a dedicated tool. I'll have to fret a few more guitars by hand before I might see how a press might be of value. I don't ever expect to see that, however. Using a hard enough fretboard wood, sanding properly with radius blocks, and gluing the fretboard to the neck with an accurate gluing caul....sort of obviates the need for an overall fret press. Production houses will use an overall press....mostly likely because they can't take the time to do all those other steps. It's one thing to make a beautiful thing... ...it's a whole nother thing to make a thousand of them. |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
Zlurgh wrote: Mark Groza wrote: Looks nice! I need something like that to press all my frets at once in my fretboards. Do you plan on makeing a caul for it to do that as well?Nah...that's a dedicated tool. I'll have to fret a few more guitars by hand before I might see how a press might be of value. I don't ever expect to see that, however. Using a hard enough fretboard wood, sanding properly with radius blocks, and gluing the fretboard to the neck with an accurate gluing caul....sort of obviates the need for an overall fret press. Production houses will use an overall press....mostly likely because they can't take the time to do all those other steps. It's one thing to make a beautiful thing... ...it's a whole nother thing to make a thousand of them. THe factorys do it also because it sets all of the frets at the same time or pressing.You get more level frets that way  and that saves fret height when leveling and recrowning. That's why i want to do it that way.
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
Nice! |
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| Author: | wolfsearcher [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
You could make something like this mark not exactly tool porn though 
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| Author: | Brian Forbes [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
What I want to know is how much that little fella weighs? My father is a tool maker and machinist, so I know what those steel blocks feel like in real life. lol Can you even lift that thing by yourself? It's way cool though, and I will agree that a tool can be hot, and that my friend is HOT! |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
Brian Forbes wrote: What I want to know is how much that little fella weighs? My father is a tool maker and machinist, so I know what those steel blocks feel like in real life. lol Can you even lift that thing by yourself? It's way cool though, and I will agree that a tool can be hot, and that my friend is HOT! Looks like Aluminum to me . Probably a 6063T Alloy , strong but alot lighter than steel . Still rather heavy based on the size im seeing. Could be steel I guess . |
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| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hydraulic Press |
It's 6061 T-651....all left over from another business. In one way, all that metal seemed more or less free to me. On the other hand; every one of those pieces represented some sort of research or planning mistake I made earlier in life. As such...finally using it for something productive offers a reprive from shame and guilt evoked every time I looked at it....just sitting there on my floor. Well, I certainly feel lighter now...but I'm guessing this thing is pushing 250 lbs. I can only lift up a corner of it.
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