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Bone nut and saddle source.
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31548		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Ian Cunningham [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Bone nut and saddle source.
Hi everyone, I've been looking at various vendors that sell bone nut and saddle blanks and find it pretty odd that such a small piece can cost like three to four dollars. I'd like to quit using wood and plastic for my stuff but this is a bit much, especially since most of my projects require me to cut the thing much shorter, leaving me with an even smaller piece that can't get much use gaah Is there a place where I can just buy "billets" of bone? Like a big square chunk of it that I can cut to whatever size I wish at a more doable price? I imagine some of you that work in larger shops might know where to get stuff like this.
Author:  Corky Long [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
Pet shops, or the A&P... :D

I've heard that the large dog bones that are available at pet shops are suitable for recutting into nuts and saddles. If you're a do-it-yourselfer, you can buy large bones from your local butcher, boil all the meat and catilage off of them, change the water several times, and then boil them with dish detergent. Finally, after you've cut them roughly to size, soak them in "white gas" (Coleman lamp fuel) for a week, If the white gas remains clear, you're good. If it gets milky, repeat with fresh white gas, to remove all the fat from the bones. Fat in the bones will leach into the wood, discoloring it, and perhaps delaminating any joints.

After all this, $3 a blank starts to sound pretty good.

Oh, and bone dust smells terrible and is hazardous - you really need a good dust mask if you're cutting or grinding it.
Author:  Ian Cunningham [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
Yeah it does start to sound better. I did some maths and I think I might be able to get two proper sized small instrument blanks with a longer nut meant for 7, 8 and 12 string guitars. I'm still wide open for suggestions though.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
http://www.chrislintrading.com/

Christie sells bone in almost any dimension you require. She's sometimes difficult to contact because she travels to China a lot... but it's worth the wait.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
Having made nuts from almost every conceiveable material that holds a shape during the last 35 years, I recently tried my hand on a piece of Tusc brand nut material. It was harder than the hubs of hell, but made a beautiful nut when polished. This is not an endorsement, merely an observation.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
Look for "inlaidartist" or similar seller on ebay. They sell bone nut or saddle blanks for such unbelievable bargain! You can even buy 1/4" wide saddles (who would use this?) and get 2 nuts out of them...

I got more bone blanks than I know to do with thanks to them...
Author:  Ian Cunningham [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
Didn't think to check ebay duh I found a vendor in Cali selling them at almost a dollar a piece for a dozen. Thanks Mr. Fu! [:Y:]
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
I buy nuts and saddles 24 at a time from LMII at 2.85 a blank.
For me LMI consistently has the densest hardest bone blanks.
The Allparts or StewMac ones have consistently been soft, or osteoporotic, or had lots of vein lines in them from being cut from a section of bone with lots capillaries going through it.
I don't think 3 bucks a pop is a bad price at all.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
I really like LMII's stuff too. I do like you do. 24 at a pop.
Author:  TonyFrancis [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
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Author:  JJ Donohue [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
I used to prefer that my bone be harvested from retired rodeo cattle...especially from the proximal ends of the tibia where the cortical bone is more dense. I tend to hear a greater contribution to the tonal response than even HHG. More recently, I've found that Chinese cattle are far more physically developed and their bone seems to have similar density to the rodeo experienced cows. Some doubt that Chinese bone is bovine at all but instead...from "other" sources.

But who am I to ask!? laughing6-hehe
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
TonyFrancis wrote:
Quote:
Chrislin Trading...specify sizes and number of items...wait a few weeks...get excellent material

...if you don't care about how that bone was produced.
Tony, is this anectodal slander, or do you mean something else? Like, as opposed to, what?
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
Actually, I PREFER human bone, when available, especially from political prisoners who have been working out and have greater bone density as a result.
Not sure if they're allowed to work out in the Chinese prisons, they're probably more likely to be osteoporotic than the American prisoners, though.
Author:  TonyFrancis [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
Todd Stock wrote:
Are we speaking generically of China as a source of bone or specifically of Chrislin Trading? As for unhappy cattle, I really, really like this take on a related issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2LBICPEK6w


Yes I am talking about China as a source of bone, and any company who sources its product there.

Classic youtube vid - Love it! Thanks Todd.
Author:  TonyFrancis [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
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Author:  Tai Fu [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
I am not even sure why we're having this discussion... you need an animal at least the size of a cow to get usable blank for a saddle. Besides it wouldn't be cost effective otherwise, because cow bones are generally thrown away or sold for pets.

Maybe it could be pig bone, but as long as the density is right, who cares?
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
TonyFrancis wrote:
Laurent Brondel wrote:
Like, as opposed to, what?
Like, as opposed to how the (by) product is produced in other country's, such as New Zealand. Everyone I see here cares a great deal about what goes into their guitars, I don't see why this is an exception...
Do you have any insight on how the bone Christie sells is "produced"? That's what I put on my guitars, it's definitely not worse than any bone I've purchased or cut before, and in many ways probably better. I also get exactly the dimensions I ask for.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
TonyFrancis wrote:
Laurent Brondel wrote:
Like, as opposed to, what?


Like, as opposed to how the (by) product is produced in other country's, such as New Zealand.

Everyone I see here cares a great deal about what goes into their guitars, I don't see why this is an exception...


Tony...I'd be happy to buy NZ bone or from anywhere else...as long as it is good quality, service and at good pricing. In the meantime, if you have any evidence regarding the bone that Christie sells is illegally produced, please let us know...otherwise innuendos that tarnish her reputation must be challenged.

I have to agree with Laurent on this issue.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
I agree, you can't make a statement like that without providing an explanation and giving details as to what you mean. Do you mean people were killed for it, or it was ct by children in sweatshops, or something, or do you just not like Chinese products? Please clarify.
Author:  TonyFrancis [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
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Author:  stan thomison [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
I use Christies material. I am now just running out of my last order of 144. Maybe I can talk her into my next batch from her produced in a orphanage and made of panda bone, or if they can find some elephant running around I have made a bunch of orders from her over the last 8 years or so and never disappointed.
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
TonyFrancis wrote:
Sure thing. Most people believe we have a moral duty to minimize suffering, and I believe we do that through the purchases we make.
I do agree with you Tony, up to a certain degree as buying is not by definition a political or ethical act but it certainly contributes one way or another, at the very least to the buyer's conscience.
However I sincerely doubt that animals destined for the large scale food industry are treated in a worse way in China than here in the USA, it would be difficult to top. I do not know for New Zealand.
Author:  K.O. [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
beehive

I guess it would be wrong to want my cow bone from Fuku province for the extra energy they give to a guitar meant for death metal?

Heck we don't as humanity do all that well towards oursevles...
Author:  K.O. [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
The designer of this has been my oldest son's inspiration for a few years now, MORE humane can mean more efficient:

http://grandin.com/design/blueprint/blueprint.html

and that will sell better rather than any moral stance and will help achieve the desired result...
Author:  klooker [ Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone nut and saddle source.
When this thread was new, I decided to order some nuts & saddles on Ebay.

I ordered from the seller inlaidartist. The deal was for 25 nuts & 25 saddles $35.00 delivered. I bought the lot on March 25 & it finally showed up on April 19.

Of the lot, one saddle was split & not usable. All of the pieces felt about the same in terms of weight/density. 17 out of 25 saddles looked & felt very good, the others looked less than perfect but only 2 of them seemed unuasable.

15 out of 25 nuts looked very good. 10 had some visual issues but I think most of them will be ok - some white streaking that looked like less dense areas but poking at them with an awl didn't reveal any real issues.

All of the pieces also had what looked like a thin coat of varnish maybe to keep them looking snow white?

Overall, I'm happy with the purchase. Hope this is helpful.

Kevin Looker
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