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| Tung Oil Finish http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31537 |
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| Author: | B Radtke [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tung Oil Finish |
Have any of you finished a guitar completely with tung oil? If so, what was your process? I dont have spray equipment and really no good place to set it up. So, I'm looking for an easy way to get a natural, professional looking finish. Thanks. |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
May i suggest French Polish. It can be done in the house and gives an nice natural finish. I do it in the winter when i can't shoot the nitro. |
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| Author: | B Radtke [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
I've thought about french polish, but i know I like the feel of tung oil on a neck. I am also looking for something a little easier than french polish. |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
I hear ya on the look and feel of a tung oil finish. I do it on my Native American Flutes i build alot. I try to sand to a very smooth surface then wipe it down with mineral spirts to remove all dust first. I then wipe on a heavy coat of tung oil going in the direction of the grain and let sit for ten minutes and then buff with a lint free cloth. Then i wait 24 hrs. and do it again. That's it. 
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
Danish Oil (the one with resin) is a better option than pure Tung Oil IMO. You will still get that close to wood feel and the resin will add a touch more protection. It's also very easy to maintain if the finish gets a little grubby. Applying the stuff to the soundboard is a little different to the instructions on the tin - that is if you believe in oil, dampening and the stuff soaking deep into the wood. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
B Radtke wrote: I'm looking for an easy way to get a natural, professional looking finish. Thanks. If there was an "easy way to get a professional looking finish" everyone would be doing it. The results you get are due to the work, materials, and equipment used. |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
If you can operate a rag you can finish anything with tung oil. |
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| Author: | Brian Forbes [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
Tung Oil, Tru-Oil, Danish Oil, the most difficult component to get right is the rag. I use clean cotton undershirts that I cut patches from, or sometimes I use gun cleaning patches. The trick with tru-oil especially is to apply many thin coats vs a few thick ones. You made a good decision to go oil for your first few. You can get a good finish without having to shoot nitro and deal with all the setup and space it requires. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
Pure tung oil is a terrible guitar finish. |
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| Author: | B Radtke [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
Howard Klepper wrote: Pure tung oil is a terrible guitar finish. If by terrible, you mean you dont like it, thanks for your opinion. I KNOW it makes a great feeling neck, as i worked at a company that used it. I liked it and all the people that spent $3000+ for basses loved it also. Now, I'll appreciate anyones input on the best way to apply the finish that I asked about. Thanks. Oh and thanks Filippo. I'm checking outh that Millburn site now. |
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| Author: | Goodin [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
I recommend using Liberon finishing oil: http://www.liberon.co.uk/oil-finishes/f ... QmfA%3D%3D. I haven't used it to build with but the builder in England who made my bouzouki used it and I am very pleased with it. It's a very hard and durable finish and he claims it doesn't dampen the tone like other oils, or even varnish does. I agree with him. It is the most responsive zouk I have owned or played. Oil finishes are very easy to apply. Cut up a clean old t-shirt into a patch size, or use paper towels. Shake the can well, open it up, dip the towel/shirt in the can, soak it good but not dripping wet, wipe it on in the direction of the grain thinly and evenly, go over any spots you missed and be sure it is even throughout, let it sit for a few minutes, then wipe with a clean dry t-shirt/paper towel, look it over real good to make sure the coat is even, let it set overnight, then repeat as many times as you want to get the desired amount of glossiness. I used Minwax 209 for my first dulcimer. I was happy after 5 coats on walnut. It was satin but more on the glossy side. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
There isn't a great deal to say about it. You wipe it on, you wipe it all off. In reality it isn't possible to wipe it all off, it's either absorbed by the wood or (on later applications) a very thin layer remains on the surface. Are you referring to Pure Tung Oil or a Tung Oil finish? They aren't necessarily the same thing. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
Goodin wrote: I recommend using Liberon finishing oil: http://www.liberon.co.uk/oil-finishes/f ... QmfA%3D%3D. I haven't used it to build with but the builder in England who made my bouzouki used it and I am very pleased with it. It's a very hard and durable finish and he claims it doesn't dampen the tone like other oils, or even varnish does. I agree with him. It is the most responsive zouk I have owned or played. Perhaps it's a responsive Zouk irrespective of the finish. I'd sure like to know what Liberon are doing to that stuff if it doesn't behave like any other finishing Oil. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
B Radtke wrote: Howard Klepper wrote: Pure tung oil is a terrible guitar finish. If by terrible, you mean you dont like it, thanks for your opinion. I KNOW it makes a great feeling neck, as i worked at a company that used it. I liked it and all the people that spent $3000+ for basses loved it also. Now, I'll appreciate anyones input on the best way to apply the finish that I asked about.Tung oil can mean a lot of things, between pure tung oil and a wiping varnish type of finish. None can be sprayed to good effect. Rags and a lot of patience are all that's required for what is IMHO a mediocre acoustic guitar finish at best. Wipe on, wipe off. Wait. Wipe on, wipe off. Wait etc. Do not crumple and throw your rags in the trash, let them dry flat on a concrete floor or bench and throw them out when totally dry. That is if you want to avoid a house fire, it's a classic. |
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| Author: | B Radtke [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
I'm sorry. I thought this was a forum where you could get factual help and advise on things relating to guitar building. And the reason I'm asking here instead of the company is that we didn't part on good terms. Thanks for all the help though. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
B Radtke wrote: I thought this was a forum where you could get factual help and advise on things relating to guitar building. Occasionally, you do.
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| Author: | B Radtke [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
Well, I appreciate the people who actually took the time to answer the question. If my question had been, "What do you think of a tung oil finish?", maybe I would have taken it a different way. As it stands it just sounded like a smart response that wasn't meant to be helpful. Maybe I took it the wrong way. But with the other negativity coupled with this thread, I wonder why anyone would wanna go beyond 14 posts for fear of being belittled. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
B Radtke wrote: Howard Klepper wrote: Pure tung oil is a terrible guitar finish. If by terrible, you mean you dont like it, thanks for your opinion. I KNOW it makes a great feeling neck, as i worked at a company that used it. I liked it and all the people that spent $3000+ for basses loved it also. Now, I'll appreciate anyones input on the best way to apply the finish that I asked about. Thanks. Oh and thanks Filippo. I'm checking outh that Millburn site now. Funny, but despite the thanks, I get the sense you are not actually grateful for my opinion. By terrible I mean it will never get hard or build to a glossy film. And that its high damping will deaden the sound of an acoustic instrument while darkening the wood and looking blotchy on spruce. About the only kind of player who might like it (unless the $3000+ convinced them that they must) is someone who likes an unfinished neck, and gets one quick wipe of tung which leaves the neck feeling unfinished. I doubt that your company was using pure tung oil (but if you think so, please reveal the name of the company so we can check for ourselves). Various products are called "tung oil finish," many of which don't have a drop of tung oil in them. Most are rubbing varnishes, e.g., Formby's "Tung Oil Finish". The majority of the questions I've seen on the net about using "tung oil" over the years have turned out to be about one of these varnishes. If you specify the product you are using, we could be of more help to you. Just saying "tung oil" unfortunately does not make it clear, since the term is abused by finish manufacturers. I realize that you were not asking for opinions of tung oil--you asked about applying it-- but other people read this forum, and I wouldn't want them to do something they would regret. And if you were going to go out and buy pure tung oil, I may have actually helped you. |
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| Author: | B Radtke [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
Thank you for the explenation an your view on the finish Howard. And now I understand where your coming from about the body, and now I won't go that route. Sorry for taking the short comment the wrong way. But for the neck, I'm gonna hold strong. With the back of the neck I'm more concerned with how it feels than how it looks. Over time that "tung oil" finish does get splotchy. But it is super fast and your hand doesn't stick to it like with lacquer. Kind of like vintage Fenders with most of the finish gone. The necks are one of the reasons Lakland has been getting a ton of satisfied, loyal customers. The $3000+ may not mean much, but when you have bass players from U2, Rolling Stones, David Bowie, Bob Dylan in your stable of endorsers it may have some merit to it. |
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| Author: | klooker [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
You might want to look at Waterlox. It is a polymerized (or maybe polymerizing?) tung oil finish. In my experience it cures quicker than straight tung oil. If you do get Waterlox, also buy a can of bloxygen which will prevent the Waterlox from hardening in the can in case you don't use it up within about 6 months. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | TimAllen [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
I for one appreciate the information that's been shared in this thread. Most of us know that there's no easy way to get a durable, glossy, professional finish on a guitar. We're hoping to find something easier to apply that looks pretty good. "Easier" and "pretty good" are both judgment calls. My experience very much confirms what Howard said about the brand of finish being key, not the name. For example, all kinds of things are called "Danish oil." And, as in the case of finishes like Tru-Oil, it seems like the decision of whether to call a finish "oil" or "wiping varnish" is made in the marketing department. I have used Deft's "Danish oil," which contains urethane resin, on furniture and a couple of maple electric guitar necks. It has a slight gloss, feels nice, and has proven durable. I suspect it's more durable than pure tung oil, due to the urethane. I don't know how much it would penetrate and affect acoustic tone, though scraping reveals it doesn't penetrate much. It doesn't have the look that people have come to expect on fine acoustic guitars. However, it is certainly easy to apply, so if an "in the wood" appearance without much gloss seems "pretty good" to you, it's worth testing. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
klooker wrote: You might want to look at Waterlox. It is a polymerized (or maybe polymerizing?) tung oil finish. In my experience it cures quicker than straight tung oil. If you do get Waterlox, also buy a can of bloxygen which will prevent the Waterlox from hardening in the can in case you don't use it up within about 6 months. Kevin Looker Waterlox uses tung oil, but not polymerized tung oil. It is a tung oil and resin varnish--the oil and resin are cooked together and join chemically. They don't say what the resin is; probably some kind of alkyd, maybe a phenolic. What I hate about Waterlox is that they use trimethylbenzene as one of the solvents. It's pretty toxic stuff, and has a very strong smell like gasoline that lasts for days. |
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| Author: | klooker [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
Howard Klepper wrote: Waterlox uses tung oil, but not polymerized tung oil...  My mistake.I agree it does stink but for an oil finish, it builds relatively quick. I used to use Watco but changed to Waterlox for that reason. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
klooker wrote: I agree it does stink but for an oil finish, it builds relatively quick. I used to use Watco but changed to Waterlox for that reason. Waterlox smell can be overwhelming and I am not too fond of it, I agree.However it is not an oil finish. It is an oil varnish, and actually a thinned oil varnish whose purpose is to be used as a sealer. I would disagree it builds fast, again it is considerably thinned. If you want a fast build use a "full" oil varnish. |
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| Author: | klooker [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tung Oil Finish |
Laurent Brondel wrote: ... I would disagree it builds fast, again it is considerably thinned. If you want a fast build use a "full" oil varnish. Laurent, Would you agree that it builds faster than a product like Watco or some other wipe on/wipe off type product that people commonly refer to as "oil finish"? Kevin Looker |
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