Official Luthiers Forum!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31407		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
Bought 2 bottles of Ubeaut hard shellac. and now I am trying to find some "good stuff " as a substitute for ethanol, as this seem to be impossible to find here. I can get 100% methanol, will this do ?. or what is the best substitute to denaturated alcohol that you can find in Sweden or somewhere in europe where they would sent it to me ?

LARS
Author:  Michael.N. [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
In the UK we tend to use this:

http://www.restexpress.co.uk/acatalog/F ... pirit.html

Ethanol with a small amount of Shellac added. The small amount of Shellac (probably) is the bit that defies the law :-) . . . otherwise it's the purple 'you shouldn't be drinking this' stuff.
Don't know if either works in Ubeaut, my best guess is that both will though. Both dissolve Shellac.
Author:  Daniel Minard [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
99% Isopropyl alcohol works fine. Available at most pharmacies.
Even this stuff is getting harder to buy. Last time I picked up a litre, the druggist told me it is being used to produce street drugs & will soon be a restricted item.
Author:  Colin North [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
Or you can get clear methylated spirits here http://www.finneys)woodfinishes.co.uk/shop/renovation-wood-solvents.html
But I am just using the purple stuff (NOT the cheaper, recycled/recovered one) - works fine, same as above, ethanol 90/95%, small percentage methanol, traces of pyradine (bit nasty smell) plus dye (warning it's not vodka!)
Don't know about Sweden though, is "denaturerad-sprit" freely available
Author:  Colin North [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
Lars Stahl wrote:
Bought 2 bottles of Ubeaut hard shellac. and now I am trying to find some "good stuff " as a substitute for ethanol, as this seem to be impossible to find here. I can get 100% methanol, will this do ?. or what is the best substitute to denaturated alcohol that you can find in Sweden or somewhere in europe where they would sent it to me ?

LARS

Forgot to mention, Methanol and its vapour are classed as poisonous......
Author:  YJ John [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
I tried local Moonshine. It didn't work :cry: I'll bring the bottle to A.S.I.A for proper disposal
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
Chemists frequently use 100% ethanol. If you can befriend someone from a university or industrial chemistry department, perhaps they can give you a small amount. You really don't need more than about 200-500 ml for a guitar. In light of the amount of feed corn we're cooking for ethanol/gasoline mixtures, there might hypothetically be an opportunity to get a an occasional liter from a sympathetic source.

There are commercially available denatured alcohol products in the US that work, but be sure to protect your skin from constant contact.

Don't even think about using 100% methanol unless you wear gloves and a hazmat suit.

John...Hypothetically...if one had a moonshine source, it would be important to get it fresh from the still before it's diluted for drinking purposes. If one were a reasonable distiller the stuff coming from the condenser tube would be 100% ethanol...in order to get the purest product it would be best to bottle it and seal it ASAP. Whatever is left over would happily be shared by the thirsty among us!

In light of the cost and rarity, it may eventually be necessary to distill small batches in our own kitchens...hypothetically speaking, of course!
Author:  Colin North [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
JJ Donohue wrote:
If one were a reasonable distiller the stuff coming from the condenser tube would be 100%

Bit pedantic maybe, but when distilling a mixture with miscible spirits and water, the product is what is called an azeotrope, a fixed mixture of the spirit and water, 96% in this case, 4% water. For 100%, water is removed by other means, for example, a dessicant of some kind.
Just trying to add to the knowledge database! :)
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
Thanks... I am looking and calling around. might have someone who can get me from a chemistry lab, not sure yet. one company had ethanol with 96% ethanol. not 98-100. another was 80%ethanol + 20% isopropanol or such but they only sold per box containing 12 bottles (12 liters) not that thirsty right now. and it would also meen that I need to buy a lot of baguettes to rince it through :lol: :D .

Lars
Author:  nickton [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
Why don't they have denatured alcohol? Seems like one of the safest solvents out there. Thank God I'm in the USA.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
Colin North wrote:
JJ Donohue wrote:
If one were a reasonable distiller the stuff coming from the condenser tube would be 100%

Bit pedantic maybe, but when distilling a mixture with miscible spirits and water, the product is what is called an azeotrope, a fixed mixture of the spirit and water, 96% in this case, 4% water. For 100%, water is removed by other means, for example, a dessicant of some kind.
Just trying to add to the knowledge database! :)


Good point, Colin...azeotrope...you resurrected a word and condition I hadn't considered in decades.

Lars...The product "Everclear", which is the best we can get here for FP, is labeled as 190 proof (95% Ethanol). In addition, since ethanol is highly hygroscopic, it's water content probably increases over time depending how much the bottle is opened as well as to how much empty head space it is exposed. If you can get the 95% stuff, go for it!
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
Lars, I'm sure you can get denatured in Sweden, as we do over here in Norway. We call it rødsprit (red spirit), as they put some red colorant in there along with the "stuff" that makes it undrinkable, supposedly so there is no mistaking it for the drinkable stuff. The problem I've experienced with it as a solvent for shellac, is that the water content in it varies, and perhaps some of the other "stuff" too, which means sometimes it workes fine, other times, not so fine. Its worth a try, though, unless you can find good moonshine (not a problem in these parts... :o [xx(] )
Author:  mqbernardo [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
just chiming in to say : please don´t use methanol... that stuff is extremely poisonous. i work as a chemist and only use it in a ventilated chamber, with an eye and nose protection mask (excuse me for not knowing the proper terms for these), for short periods of time.

cheers,
Miguel.
Author:  Billy T [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
I use Everclear. Got mine from Arizona BevMo. Less than $20.00 bucks. It's classified as a Vodka which you can buy onlline. Here's a link to a alcohol/wine/beer distributor that you may try. If not there are plenty others.

http://www.shoppersvineyard.com

Don't know if they ship Everclear to Sweden but they will Vodka.

My Buddy distills and drinks his own from his garage. He uses a reflux still. Here's a link to one of many tutorials. If not, if I know Swedes, there are plenty of people around that will distill some for you.

http://www.stilltutorial.com/
Author:  JoeUlman [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
nickton wrote:
Why don't they have denatured alcohol? Seems like one of the safest solvents out there. Thank God I'm in the USA.

Denatured alcohol is not a good substitute for ethanol if the shellac is for French polishing because it can contain any number of toxic additives, one often being methanol. When French polishing you are literally hovering over vapors as you work and it is difficult to do a good job while wearing a respirator.

The same applies to those proprietary shellac solvents when French polishing. Read the label, or better yet the MSDS.

Joe
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
I bought some Ethanol 98 % from Ron in Holland along with the Ubeaut hard shellac [:Y:] all come through customs, was afraid it would not.
So now I have bought lots of bread to pour it through so I can have a 1 man party here. Nothing beats Neil Young and a glas of Ethanol while bending wood laughing6-hehe .

Lars
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
You coulda just bought Aqua Velva! :D
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
:D [:Y:] [:Y:] Thanks Waddy !! . why didn´t I think of that hahaha
Author:  Matt Bouchie [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
Lars Stahl wrote:
So now I have bought lots of bread to pour it through so I can have a 1 man party here. Nothing beats Neil Young and a glas of Ethanol while bending wood laughing6-hehe .


Only if you are listening to Tonight's The Night! Or, better yet, one of the bootlegs from the '73 Santa Monica Flyers tour.

Matt
Author:  Per [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
Lars, you shall ask "Läkemedelsverket" for a permission to buy denaturated etanol (99% etanol denaturated with butanol 40 g/kg). They will give permission according to annual need. To buy etanol you send a copy of the permission to the company where you buy the stuff. If you don't get permission (I'm not sure if you need to have a company registered) you can use "T-Röd" as a decent substitution.
Author:  nickton [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: French polishing substitute for ethanol ?
thanks for the info. I didn't know that about denatured alcohol. The instructions I read said to use it so I didn't worry.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/