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| Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31285 |
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| Author: | Christoph [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
For my next guitar I would like to build a L-00 with a 24.9" scale length and 12 frets to the body (would that be a Martin 00-18S ?). It looks like there are no plans available for this layout. What I have is the "Circa 1937 Gibson L-00 Guitar" plan by Kerry Char. I think i got it from LMI. I will use the body dimensions of that plan. The specs on there are - 24 25/32" scale lenght - 14 frets to the body - 85 ° X-brace angle - 4" distance from top of body to the beginning of the soundhole - 4" diameter soundhole - 1 8/32" from bottom of soundhole to the beginning of the X-brace. The 24.9" scale length I want to use gives me the exact position of the bridge. What I am not sure about is - the placement of the soundhole (Will the soundhole move down? How far?), - the placement of the X-brace (Should I keep the 1 8/32" distance to the soundhole?) and - the X-brace angle (Still 85° or a different angle?). Any help is highly appreciated. Thanks in advance. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
Just a thought, but would it not be better to alter the body shape so as to have the 12th fret body joint, than effectively moving the fretboard down, and moving the bridge closer to the tail end by 2 frets, 14 to 12th? Might have a significant effect on the sound of a guitar. Also a larger body will give a fuller, or deeper tone, less changes in bracing, soundhole placement etc.? |
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| Author: | Christoph [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
Colin North wrote: Just a thought, but would it not be better to alter the body shape so as to have the 12th fret body joint, than effectively moving the fretboard down, and moving the bridge closer to the tail end by 2 frets, 14 to 12th? Might have a significant effect on the sound of a guitar. Also a larger body will give a fuller, or deeper tone, less changes in bracing, soundhole placement etc.? Colin, That is a nice idea, but unfortunately not an option in this case: I have already build the rims. |
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| Author: | Haans [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
A pretty simple way to do it is to use your fretboard. You no doubt will have a 20 fret board, add 1/4" or so past the 20th, and that's where your sounhole will be. Measure the distance between the soundhole and bridge, and cross the X at about 1/2 the distance and then open the X up to cross the bridge at approximately the same place as on your plan. That will set your angle. |
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| Author: | Christoph [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
Thanks a lot for all the helpful tips. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") Do you have some more specific information regarding the placement of the soundhole (meaning the distance from top of body to the beginning of the soundhole). On the 14-fret plan it was 4". Would the 12-fret layout lead to 4" plus the lenght of the 13th and 14th fret (= 5 22/64)? |
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| Author: | Haans [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
Try this: http://www.stewmac.com/FretCalculator Plug in your info, and it will give you the measurements you need. The distance would be from the 12th fret to the 19th or 20th plus a little for the end of the F/B. |
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| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
I have done this very thing. l contacted several L-00 12 fret owners and got measurements. Plus there are X-rays online of a 12 freter. Look on the Unofficial Martin guitar forum in the Vintage section. I can't upload my file here with the dimensions but PM me and I can email you the specs. Link |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
Todd Stock wrote: (1/8" wider than the bridge itself, with notched rear corners. I don't mean to sound thick but it is early.  Would you mind explaining what a notched corner is please Todd?Thanks, Danny |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
I built this very instrument last year. From what I can tell, Gibson used the same body shape for the 12-fret as for the 14-fret, with the soundhole in several different locations and different fretboard lengths. Starting from a 14-fret plan, I drew a 12-fret plan for the bracing using a 24.9" fretboard. The bracing was all moved down by about the distance between the 12th and 14th frets. The soundhole can be fall into place—its exact location isn't critical so long as it clears the x-brace. I put mine low enough so that the rosette was visible 360 deg, as Gibson did on these. Turned out to be a very comfortable guitar to play. Here's a pic of the result. Attachment: l1.jpg
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| Author: | Dan Pennington [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
This is my second guitar that I built about 10 years ago. The body was a combination of N L-00 and a Larivee model that I liked the looks of. I drew the body and just overlaid some Martin 12 fret 00 bracing pattern over it. I wiggled things around till they fit and went from there. It sounds good to me. It's my main player now after I've built 8 guitars.  So, just drop some braces on it and start wiggling. |
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| Author: | Christoph [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
Thanks again for al the replies. I think I have all the infos I need to make a plan for this top. I just hope that the control unit of the Baggs Anthem I ordered for this build will fit between the soundhole and the waist. |
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| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
Quote: I put mine low enough so that the rosette was visible 360 deg, as Gibson did on these. Actually the 14 fret ones had the rosette visible 360°. The earlier 12 fret ones had the finger board just shy of the sound hole and covering the top of the rosette. You can tell them apart in a instant by this feature. L. |
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| Author: | Christoph [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
I came up with this bracing pattern. For those who have built with a similar configuration: Does this look like it could work? Do you think the bridge wings do overlap the x-braces enough to get sufficient support? |
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| Author: | David Newton [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
Christoph, I don't have anything to add to your drawing layout, I think it looks good. I do, however, think your neck and end blocks are about 50% over-massive. |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
Looks very much like mine, though I added A-bracing from the upper x-braces up to the neck block for extra stiffness. Looks like you beefed up the UTB as I did, which is a good idea since the old L-00s were famous for sinking in this area. On another note: Link Van Cleave wrote: Quote: I put mine low enough so that the rosette was visible 360 deg, as Gibson did on these. Actually the 14 fret ones had the rosette visible 360°. The earlier 12 fret ones had the finger board just shy of the sound hole and covering the top of the rosette. You can tell them apart in a instant by this feature. L. Generally true, except when they didn't (we're talking Gibson here, eh?). Attachment: 12-fret L-00.jpg Pat |
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| Author: | Christoph [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
Thanks for your input. It is highly appreciated. Great idea to make a solid UTB. A-bracing from the upper x-braces up to the neck block for extra stiffness sound like a good idea aswell. I think I saw that at a soundboard of Arnt Rian. Will give it a try. Me runs off to the drawing board.... 
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
Nice drawing - I think that'll work fine. I've built a 24.9 12 fret with a standard 000 sized body template. Worked fine. I won't add to all the good advice you've gotten here, except to suggest you triple check your scale length and location of the bridge. That's the only place where I had a near miss on mine. You can always shift your x brace a bit, based on the scale length and mandatory location of the bridge, but I know I'm stating the obvious that a bridge that's out of place will make a poor guitar, indeed. 
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| Author: | woody b [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Layout for L-00 24.9" 12frets ?? Help please... |
Here's some pictures of a 12 fret L00ish guitar I built a while back. I gave up a couple frets to keep the soundhole/waist relationship the way I wanted it. I believe the area between the bridge and the soundhole is important tonally......at least with my building style. Attachment: Top and fingerboard.jpg Attachment: bracing layout 12 fret.jpg Attachment: All Koa 12 fret.jpg You can hear this guitar here. http://brackettinstruments.com/25.mp3 And see alot more about it here. http://brackettinstruments.com/Build%20process.html |
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