I just finished this one. The waist was no trouble on a Fox style bender. The cutaway was.
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| Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31245 |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
I bought a set of Bubinga a few years ago when I started building, which I looked at yesterday with a view to using, and now realised it is "Waterfall" Buibinga, with sap, and very nice it is too. However, I hesitated to use it with the figure in it because I don't want to destroy the sides bending them I live in UK and don't seem to be able to get Supersoft here (Google search, etc.) which may give me more chance of a successful bend. I can get Supersoft from US, but hesitated to order because of cost - would total about $65 for a $5 bottle - more than the original price of the sides. Anyway, the wife would have a fit! A few other veneer softeners are available here, but I'm not sure if they are the same thing. I have a Fox style bender, built a solid form (OLF SJ) a quality electric blanket and accessories and am waiting for spring steel slats. I suppose a dread is a possibility, but I really like the SJ shape. I believe dry and hot, little or no water would be the way to go for bending, maybe test out the local veneer softener (I have about 5" extra on the sides for an SJ ) to try bending the waist curve) Anyone bent this stuff without Supersoft? Suggestion, comments would be greatly appreciated. (And no, I don't want to sell it!) |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
I imagine one of the most likely mistake one can do is to leave it too thick. The second mistake is to force it. Figured wood has a lot of random runout which means it snaps so easily. In general I say when in doubt, thin it some more. I thinned ultra dense Amazon rosewood down to 1.5mm otherwise it would simply spring back no matter how hard, long and hot I tried, it was like steel. With all the wood I've bent, thinner was easier. Sides receive a great deal of strength thanks to their final shape but if you feel they end up being too fragile you can always bump the number and strength of the side braces. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
OK, maybe a useful note for UK builders. I can buy PRO-GLUE VENEER SOFTENER here - I eventually found the MSDS sheet for both Supersoft 2 and this other veneer softener and it is the same thing. Diethylene Glycol Monoethyl Ether, or Methyl Cellusolve. Google rocks! |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
Here's how I successfully bent WFB on a fox bender with heating blanket on top and light bulbs on the bottom: 1) Thin sides to .080"-.085" 2) Lightly spray veneer softener on both sides and allow to sit for 24 hrs. 3) Wrap side in craft paper and lightly spray paper with distilled water 4) Sandwich side between steel slats and place blanket on top. 5) Place the sandwich in the bender, turn on the heat and allow it to achieve a surface temp of 200*F 6) Start bending at the waist until it is 1/4-1/2" from bottoming out. 7) Bend the lower bout and then the upper bout 8) Seat the waist completely 9) Maintain surface temp at 300*F for 10 minutes and then turn off the heat. 10) Once it returns to RT then heat to 300 *F a second time and maintain for 10 minutes. 11) Allow the set to remain at RT overnight It worked for me on WFB as well as other highly figured wood. Good luck! |
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| Author: | Paul Burner [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
I have built a guitar with WFB - and pretty much did as JJ has listed out - other than I started bending at a little higher temp - but I would trust JJ over me! My only problem with the bending is that the sides faceted some in places (flat places in the bend rather than a nice smooth curve). The faceting was minor and I was able to smooth out the transitions with a good amount of careful sanding. The guitar ended up sounding amazing - and the person who now owns it loves it. Be ready to spend a long time sanding - this stuff is a bear to sand. Enjoy it! |
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| Author: | Robbie_McD [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
I would concur with both JJ and Paul - I recently bent some Pomelle Bubinga, same setup (damp craft paper) routine as JJ except started the waist bend at 250 (like Paul). Note the craft paper is essential in providing that bit of steam, as well as to isolate the wood from the slats. I did a set last year without a barrier and they turned out black - tried to clean up with oxalic acid but was not entirely successful. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
Just a bit of followup: I slowly start the waist bend at 200*...by the time it gets to within 1/4" it's around 250*. Highly figured woods have grain going in all directions and are prone to cracking and faceting. I've found that faceting generally occurs when using too much water on the bend. As time goes on, I find I'm using far less water and getting better results. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
I did as J.J. did except start at 250, work slow and give it time to bend. I did a cutaway at .080" and had no issues other than stress while listening for a break as I turned the screw, especially on the cutaway, every creak and sound of the bender increased my stress level. The results were well worth the effort. Fred |
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| Author: | klooker [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
Those of you that have bent it, was it quarter sawn, flat sawn or rift sawn? I'm asking because I have a board of it that I'm contemplating making into a guitar but it's pretty much flat sawn. Thanks, Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
I find flatsawn to facet more than quartersawn when bending sides. And will be harder to pore fill and sand without undercutting. I now try to use quartersawn in open pore woods for bending sides. I think it just acts better for bending. With that said, flatsawn can be used but probably will require more work to detail for finishing. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
Thanks to all who replied. Can I just ask, did anyone use just a heat blanket only? I saw JJ used blanket above, and lightbulbs below, which I could do if I make another mold (relatively easily, I still kept the pattern piece), as my present SJ one is solid. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
I only use the blanket and slats and had no problems Fred |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
Thanks Fred. |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
If you'd like some further encouragement from the stone ages, I bent a highly figure set the old-fashioned way, over a hot pipe. Just to report that it is possible. Steve |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
I just finished this one. The waist was no trouble on a Fox style bender. The cutaway was.
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| Author: | Colin North [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
Nice Steve, very nice. What are the bindings? I ripped 10 strips off my sides for bindings, and will use for this one. Mine is not so highly figured, but has sap same as yours. Just sanding sides today, and as Paul said, it's a "bear" to sand - resorted to 36 grit with my Jet 10-20 to get them near thickness, will try 80 grit domorrow for final thicknessing , then scraper. Looking forward to the back as well...... LOL |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
Steve Kinnaird wrote: If you'd like some further encouragement from the stone ages, I bent a highly figure set the old-fashioned way, over a hot pipe. Just to report that it is possible. Steve Thanks for info - I'm impressed, but, I haven't got one. Have to sort one out for backstraps on headstocks. |
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| Author: | Brian Forbes [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
I bent a set of moderately figured Bubinga over a hot pipe with a torch in the back of it...old fashioned like the other poster. It didnt give me any trouble, but I will admit I was nervous about breaking it which made me take more time. I'm sure it was the taking time portion of the experience that made it so the sides didnt break. |
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| Author: | mhammond [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
Colin: One thing to consider if you do order the bottle of supersoft. One bottle will last you maybe the rest of your life, it goes a very long way... Mikey |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending Waterfall Bubinga - bending question |
It certainly would have lasted the rest of my life - it would never have been opened. I did mention my "other half" in the first part of the post, and would never have made it out the door to go to the workshop if she found out! How much !!!   
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