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Top wood vs. guitar value
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Author:  DannyV [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Top wood vs. guitar value
I'd like to get an opinion from those of you that have built and sold some guitars, and of course anyone else. I'm wondering how much the saleability of a guitar might change depending on the type of top wood used. Here's my situation. I've just started #6. It will be a L-00 out of quilted Western Maple and?. I had every intention of making the top Cedar the reason being mostly that I've yet to do a steel string with Cedar and I know it can make some lovely sounding guitars but as you know it's pretty soft. I have some nice, stiff wood, but I'm finding myself second guessing my choice of top wood. My 5th guitar turned out pretty flawless, that is after fixing the flaws. Is it possible to do an error free build? [headinwall] I think there is some pretty good value in that guitar and I see no reason there won't be good value in #6. I'm not building it for anyone in particular and I will play it for a while but I'm sure I will want to sell it for the obvious reason, to build more. duh Anyway, the point I'm wondering is, do you think the/a guitar would be of better market value with something other than Cedar? My other choices are Lutz, Sitka and Englemann. All pretty nice quality. Some builders most certainly have done well with Cedar. Lowden and Rod True to name a couple. :)

Thanks For Your Thoughts,
Danny
Author:  DennisK [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top wood vs. guitar value
Not really. There are a lot of cedar fans in the high-end acoustic market from what I've seen. And at 6 guitars, I think the experience working with a new top wood will be much more valuable than any sale price difference :)

Can't help you on the delicate-ness during building though... I'm working on my second and third (all sitka so far) and still not doing very well at keeping them from getting dented and scratched.
Author:  truckjohn [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top wood vs. guitar value
If you were trying to get someone to bite based on wood choice alone.....
Adirondack red spruce or German/alpine spruce wins....
Brazilian Rosewood or African Blackwood wins.....

Everything else isn't those when playing the game of trying to get someone to bite based on wood names....

Build the guitar you want to build - someone will love it.... Usually, many people love it... but someone will HAVE TO OWN IT!

Thanks
Author:  DannyV [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top wood vs. guitar value
Thanks for bringing me back to my senses fellows. I don't know what I was thinking, or not thinking. Living in land o' Cedar I have a few tops. I went through the pile and picked out three possible candidates and thicknessed them the same. The winner rang like a gong. Seriously. And is VERY stiff. There was no way I could not use it.

I'll let you know how it turns out. Might be a little while as the shop will soon be cluttered with a kitchen. Thank goodness for weekends though.

Cheers,
Danny
Author:  SimonF [ Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Top wood vs. guitar value
Generally speaking - the combination you want to build is a Spruce / Rosewood. I would say the vast majority of players prefer this combination. Even if they tell you they are looking for something different, most of the players will prefer the sound of this combination in relation to others.

That said, Sinker Redwood sells incredibly well but these guitars can tend toward the "gaudy". You have to choose back/sides and binding/purfling/rosette etc... that will look aesthetically clean and coherent or else your instrument will look ugly. But a nice looking Sinker Redwood guitar sells very easily.

Regarding Spruce -- if possible, use Adirondack or German. These are the most popular. Swiss Spruce is also popular but incredibly expensive so just use German in its place.

Regarding Rosewoods -- any of the dense hardwoods will do but try and build with the following -- African Blackwood, Brazilian RW, Indian RW, Madagascar RW, Honduran RW, Southeast Asian RW, Amazon RW, Cocobolo. Also, the Ebonies (Macassar, Malaysian Blackwood) and Ziricote are extremely popular.

Things to generally avoid for specs guitars are Sitka, Engelmann, and Cedar tops. For backs avoid, Mahogany, Sapele, Maple, and Bubinga.

Certain combinations tend to draw in specific niches. For example, Cedar/Walnut is a desired combination by Celtic players.

If you are building a spec guitar, it is best to know your clientele but generally speaking, the above holds true for most of us. Obvious exceptions would be if your clientele is bluegrass then something like Adirondack/Mahogany would be very desirable.
Author:  woody b [ Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top wood vs. guitar value
Todd Stock wrote:
................................................................................................
And FWIW, you will get to the point that you can sell anything you build if you stick with it for a bit...folks stop looking for an adi/BRW OM and start looking for YOUR OMs.


What Todd said. Also, at 6 guitars (or 600 guitars IMHO) for a spec guitar concentrate on the build, instead of the materials. Use whatever you have an abundance of. Using popular materials may get you alot of inquiries (or tire kickers), but in the end the guitar will need to stand on it's own, instead of just having "nice" specs.
Author:  Frank Cousins [ Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top wood vs. guitar value
Its an interesting conundrum - a friend of mine who builds classicals professionally to a VERY high international standard has mentioned that in that market, and at the price point he woudl be looking at, the customer base is still very much traditioanls BRW/German spruce etc, although cedar is also common place... he has build stunning instruments from flamed satinwood, and Malyasian blackwood but the market is simply smaller.

Seems for steel strings, newer chices first appeared from individuals and have caught on - the manufacturers have also offer exotic combinations to fulfil that niche... less conservative a group perhaps, although especially in the US, BRW is still king? Here in the UK its a rare and expensive comodity and its far to say that a new build BRW from an established maker will be £4000+ (Approx $5000+) - very rarely will you find anything cheaper... so many have embraced the alternatives to.

Must admit, big fan of the ebonies, Macassar, Malysian Blackwood seem to make very toneful instruments although also starting to cost a fair bit more in good quality.
Author:  David Newton [ Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top wood vs. guitar value
Filippo has nailed it, but of course I'll blab my 2 cents anyway.
Build the guitar you want to build, if it is a spec guitar. You may not sell it right away, but sooner or later.
If I was going to build an L-00, and needed to sell it as soon as possible, it would be Mahogany and spruce first, then Maple and Spruce, more or less traditional.

When someone orders a guitar, then you can hash out lots of details like wood choice.
Author:  DannyV [ Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Top wood vs. guitar value
Filippo Morelli wrote:
You're asking a mass market question - a ladder braced 00 in quilted maple … and you're concerned about which top will add more/less value in the mass market?

I think the greater question, in this vain … what's the mass market value of an 00 in ladder bracing … in quilted maple? The top has much less effect on value in the mainstream than these two factors, especially the quilted maple. People buy dark guitars with light tops. That's the mainstream.

That said, I wouldn't spend 1/2 second caring about any of this. I'd just build what I want to build. If you get into the business of selling spec guitars for a living, then this might matter more.

Filippo

Just to clarify, not a ladder braced guitar. This isn't really a mass market query as I have little access to the mass market. You have to take 2 ferries to get to my little hamlet so we don't see a lot of masses. :) I do find myself ,from time to time, in the company of some pretty well known Canadian players. That's why the original question was directed more towards towards builders that hang here and sell a few guitars. I don't think there's a lot of mass market builders here at OLF. I get the feeling though that Canada and US markets are a little different. We, or at least I, don't seem to see a lot of Brazilian as well we/I don't see much Adi, grassers excluded. I see many people here that don't even look at the back of a guitar till they've spent some time playing it and often that's only if they like it. However, being Canadian we also have a genetically engrained attraction to Maple do to the generations of large consumption of Maple Syrup. You guys are all right though in saying "build what you want". Good advice. The rosettes in and if nothing else, I do need a shop guitar.

Thanks,
Danny
Author:  pthes [ Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Top wood vs. guitar value
I believe the guitars James Taylor plays have cedar tops and they sound great.
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