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The 'evil' instrument - nothing ever goes right http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=30884	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Frank Cousins [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:23 am ]
Post subject:	The 'evil' instrument - nothing ever goes right
A tale for your amusement…. OK... when starting out its easy to get carried away after that first instrument - you know it goes so well, especially when tutored by a pro, looks good, maybe a few cosmetic flaws but the sound blows you away - also by that time you are hooked, have splashed out on a stash of fine wood, begun to put together a home workshop... the world awaits you and international instrument recognition must only be a few weeks away! .... like bands with difficult 'second ' albums, how many have suffered the 'difficult second instrument syndrome? nos, 3 and 4 are going well, but no 2? well this is a sad tale of woe, frustration and a lesson in what can go wrong will go wrong... hopefully it I am not alone and I recite this tale to encourage your sympathy and support as I suffer with this hideous instrument It began life as a slightly wider waisted OM - the same as the same techniques, the same jigs and tools - after a first in lovely Macassar ebony, the second would be plainer, more a player, less ornate, not fretboard or headstock binding in curly Koa for her, just a simple look with a decent German top and nicely figured English Walnut that came from Kew Gardens... perhaps she knew, perhaps she also wanted the headstock bound? Who knows but she sure game me trouble ... yet it started so well. The top was jointed in by hand in a 5 minutes! a perfect seam, the bracing went fine, the sides were OK and the three piece back with maple centre looked nice when scraped back, even closing the box caused no problems... but this was a surely too good to be true and it was.... first problem was with routing the perf channels - not very even, but the herringbone seemed to go in OK... then onto routing the binding channels and it all went pear shaped - router slippage, through the perf... and impossible with several attempts to put it right to get a channel that would allow the binding to sit evenly and glue properly - I wanted to chuck the thing away... start again etc... but this was nice wood – so I removed the top and back resized to that of a nice shape for a tenor, adjust the bracing, and worked out that with new sides I could make a nice 13 fret to body instrument and reuse the back and top… Again the box went well… the perf channel went well the simple perf went in fine… until I routed the binding channel – this time I even had a new bit, high quality… only I forgot to completely tighten the guide and ended up gouging through the lining and into the top by nearly 5 mm on the Upper bout…. OK I could fix, a wider herringbone perf that now makes it look like something from around 1820, and with the exception of a new cunning asymmetrical design for the upper bout its perfect… well I am trying to be kind to her now, as I am sure the swearing (cussing), the extreme use of expletives has offended her delicate ears… and its why she is causing me so much pain… so what next? Well it’s an oil finish for this delinquent! And possibly a hook on the wall as a reminder of the lessons learned, the patience needed and the walking before running proverbial mess it caused… 3 and 4 are so far so good, extra care, double-checking tools … patience..patience is the new mantra…

Author:	Rod True [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The 'evil' instrument - nothing ever goes right
Yup, it happens. The only way to get through it is to sometimes leave it for awhile, and get back to it when you can progress through with a clear head. I've been there on the last two guitars I recently finished. They kept me from the shop for far to long, I didn't want to go out there to work on much of anything as they loomed in the corner....Now that they're done and gone, I'm having fun again

Author:	Pat Hawley [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The 'evil' instrument - nothing ever goes right
If I am understanding your tale of woe correctly, you are routing your binding channels after having installed your perfling. If this is what you are doing, you have much more faith in your set up to route binding channels than I do and I have a pretty decent jig. I always first route the ledges for my binding and perflings then install them all at the same time (with CA). Up until now, I assumed that's what everybody does.... Pat PS I'm not trying to be critical, if that works for you, great.

Author:	nickton [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The 'evil' instrument - nothing ever goes right
I think everything went wrong on my last one, from having to replace the truss rod after fretboard glue up, to misplacing diamond fret inlays and dealing with a serious 14th fret bump. I just kept going and got it done. Everything is fixable I learned. This will be my personal player. Sure sounds good to me.

Author:	Frank Cousins [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The 'evil' instrument - nothing ever goes right
Pat Hawley wrote: If I am understanding your tale of woe correctly, you are routing your binding channels after having installed your perfling. If this is what you are doing, you have much more faith in your set up to route binding channels than I do and I have a pretty decent jig. I always first route the ledges for my binding and perflings then install them all at the same time (with CA). Up until now, I assumed that's what everybody does.... Pat PS I'm not trying to be critical, if that works for you, great. Hi Pat No worries I understand what you mean. I also asked my good friend and pro mentor about this...he has always done it that way and his look superb - but then he is on number 170 odd and has repaired and restored $200,000 Torres' etc so he kinda has the expertise! (he likes to them mostly by hand with a perf cutter and a chisel! - not quite in my comfort zone yet!) He also suggested adding a 'sacraficial' purfling line in the same wood as the binding which give just a little extra tolerance... Think I will give your method and this other one a try on 3 and 4 - I guess its findwhat works best with the set up we have... I do think though that this tale of woe has more to do with a lack of patience and a 'fools rush in' learning experience though!

Author:	Mike Collins [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The 'evil' instrument - nothing ever goes right
I have a NOTHING goes right on this guitar every 10 or so guitars. I've made 400 instruments and repaired thousands -BUT I still get the head scratcher ones-glue does not bond;wood fractures,etc........... I may get a wood stove for them soon! It's part of the art! Mike

Author:	Ian Cunningham [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The 'evil' instrument - nothing ever goes right
Doesn't it just suck when something you invest so much time, thought, and love into just doesn't want to cooperate no matter how fondle and baby it? Sometimes there's no way of knowing this will happen no matter many you've done. Always a new issue, adapt and overcome, or just chuck it in the stove or hang it up on the wall. I prefer the latter though. I'm a pretty sensitive guy My first legit attempt at a mandolin ended in disaster, although that was ALL my fault. Made a bunch of noob mistakes. It hangs on the wall not only to showcase some of the mistakes I'm capable of, but also how much I've learned since those first few attempts at any instrument. The bracing fit well, the top was jointed brilliantly, and all the blocks fit in there too. I even managed to get a very well fitting dovetail out of it, only problem was one of the sides was facing opposite to the neck angle Had it been facing the other way and fit correctly though I'da yanked that sucker off this mandolin and would be playing on that neck today.

Author:	alan stassforth [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The 'evil' instrument - nothing ever goes right
Frank, sounds a lot like my # 4 acoustic. I started putting an arc of 25 ' radius on top and back on this one, routed out without a binding jig, used black fiber binding, which was way thin at some points, because the router tip at the outsides of the arc. Oh well, it's for me. I decided to re-do the back binding, so using a Sloane cutter, cut it out and re-did it. Then I was so unhappy with the gray color of the binding (it looked like carbon fiber), that I removed it all with a Sloane cutter and a router. Then I decided to take the back off (for reasons I won't bore you with). Took off the back, and after fixing things inside that I needed to, glued it back on. Now I need a perf next to the binding, cuz the back was shy of the binding slot. I used boodwood binding, and fiber as the purfling, on the back only. Yes, I am hating this build. I now have 4 coats of varnish on it. Many flaws, but this koa is beautiful under finish! Now I love this guitar! a few more coats to go. I'm almost done with #5, which is going very well. I scored the binding channels on this one with a Sloane cutter, used the router, then finished up with the Sloane and chisel. Maple on maple, no glue lines! Sorry this is so long an answer, but, you ain't alone!

Author:	DannyV [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The 'evil' instrument - nothing ever goes right
I feel your pain brother! Has anyone ever built error free? Not me, but I'm a half full kind of guy. Try to look at how may things go right with a build. Like Nick said, "everything is repairable" and the repair process is valuable also. Have Fun! Danny

Author:	Nate Swanger [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The 'evil' instrument - nothing ever goes right
The best part about mistakes is that you rarely make the same one twice. Hope 3 and 4 go better for you. I haven't even thought about what I want to do for #2 yet, maybe a violin.

Author:	woody b [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The 'evil' instrument - nothing ever goes right
I've got one in process right now that's being a "guitar from haydes". I sprayed the first coat of finish earlier today. I won't speak any more of it until it's completed, so I don't jinx myself.

Author:	weslewis [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The 'evil' instrument - nothing ever goes right
I have one as well.....I have discovered that amazon rosewood is not your friend!!!! Its build #5 , the wood is hard to bend, prone to chipping when routing, it cracks, and just a royal pain in the arse!!!! ouch splinters!!......... I then set my simpson neck jig off a little so I had to spend a night fitting the neck, and lastly there is the abalone purfling I decided to inlay.....with slightly undersize teflon strips it was time consuming to say the least...however I can't think of a better way to spend my free time..!

Author:	swingmandan [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The 'evil' instrument - nothing ever goes right
Here's my story .... my 1st commission build , number 8, dreadnot. Top is Engleman spruce, IRW back and sides, Celtic knot sound hole rosette. + I experimented for weeks trying to get rosette's fill with colored epoxy to match color of engleman spruce of top, everything turned out much to dark, still not right. + Closed the box with my spreaders inside, in my mold. I was using a fixed bottom mold and closed the back last .... hmmm. Ended up knocking the mold apart to get the box out. + Drilled small whole in neck with hand drill to fix FB to neck with small brad nail for gluing, pressure of clamps on FB/Neck and slight misalignment pushed nail thru the neck. + Used a vinyl sealer then a water based lacquer for finishing. Turns out they are incompatible and there was an adhesion problem which I didn't find till after finishing the whole thing. Stripped and sanded entire box and neck. Refinished according to my standard finishing method and schedule, leveled, sanded, and buffed. + Bridge popped up during setup, had to heat and remove bridge and re-glue. + Finally done with box and then noticed a depression in the finish on the top starting at the bottom in a straight line moving toward sound hole. Closer inspection under high intensity light revealed a hairline crack under the depression in the top. I will need to rebuild the box. + I have some theory's about how the crack got there. I am betting the top got to thin when I had stripped and sanded it. Crack and depression didn't show in the leveling process. In fact I was quite happy with the leveling job.

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