Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Broken guitar sounds better

:lol: Lots of good stories here. And of course we can't forget the time Ervin Somogyi cut the bridge on a cheap guitar in half to demonstrate how it ruins the tone, but it sounded better instead. But then he tried it on one of his own and it did make it sound worse, because it was loose enough to begin with.

I think we should give this a trendy name. How about RRV, randomized retro voicing. Go play a show with it and smash it on the stage at the end. Take the carcass home and glue it back together and see if it sounds better. No? Go get it caught up in the buffing wheel and watch it fly across the room. Fix it up again... still not good enough. Toss a lit match inside and let it burn for a minute, then put it out and patch up the bad spots. Finally got it! laughing6-hehe

Bottom line is, you got lucky and discovered a way you could have made it sound better in the first place, by putting an added mass and/or stiffener wherever that crack was. So next time try to duplicate that effect without having to break it first

And preferably just by adjusting the existing braces, rather than having to glue a new lump on. But lumps are certainly fair game if they improve things.

Author:	valleyofelah [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Broken guitar sounds better
So my latest guitar, which I finished a few months ago has a new voice. About 2 weeks after stringing it up, one of my kids chucked a toy across the room and wouldn't you know it, it hit my new guitar and put a nice big crack in the top. Well, I took the strings off right away, so the stress wouldn't make it any worse, and I put it aside for a while. Well, I finally got around to patching it a couple of days ago. It was a large crack, so I decided to be somewhat artistic with the patch that I glued to reinforce the repair. To my surprise, when I restrung it today, it sounded incredible. Way better than it did before the crack. So, now my question is, have any of you had a similar experience with a repair making your guitar sound better? It kinda changed my way of thinking with bracing now.

Author:	Corky Long [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broken guitar sounds better
I have a Taylor 310 that was my neighbor's until he sat on it and snapped the neck clean off the body, and putting a crack in the lower bout at the same time. After spending too long trying to find a replacement neck, I simply glued the neck back together and bolted it back on - once I figured out Taylor's ingenious neck design. I didn't bother to fix the crack in the top, but I'll be d***ed if that guitar doesn't just sound fantastic. It also needed zero work in terms of setup - it was almost eery stringing it up after 6 months on the shelf, a couple of fitted shims glued to the neck in the right place to replace some mahogany that was splintered. It was literally ready to play without any tweaking at all.

Author:	Kamusur [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broken guitar sounds better
Reverse seems to work for me. There have been a few guitars i wanted to throw across the room due to the never ending horrible sour sounding noises and things that came out of em. Steve

Author:	nickton [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Broken guitar sounds better
I built my latest in the shed I built, during these December California rains and cold spells we've been having this year. After a few days bringing it inside cracks developed on the top presumably from shrinking, because I have no climate control yet. I thought it was the end, but I've been playing the guitar and it sounds quite good. I'll just keep it for myself anyways. So far it doesn't seem to lack in strength. I keep thinking about all the performers with holes worn in their guitars from playing (i.e. Tommy Emanuel, or Willie Nelson). It's all about the sound.

Author:	runamuck [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Broken guitar sounds better
I have read repeatedly of violin makers taking the top off for a repair and after gluing it back on the instrument sounds much better. The theory is that removing the top can release stress.

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Author:	clucking [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Broken guitar sounds better
Just a much more efficiently applied Tonerite-effect!

Author:	valleyofelah [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Broken guitar sounds better
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who has found this new and incredible way of getting better tone out of our guitars.

Author:	truckjohn [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broken guitar sounds better
Having a small crack in a top can really kill the resonance of that top. A quick demonstration is to tap a rough top half that has a small split on one edge - it usually has a very short un-musical tap tone that goes "buzz." Fix the crack or just cut off the cracked section and it goes back to ringing like a bell. Other musings.... There was one particularly famous luthier who used a random orbital sander on his finishes for a few years - and that when he quit using the sander to level his finishes, his guitars didn't sound the same..... In this case, the extreme vibrations worked to "Open Up" the guitar much faster.... There are also several classical builders who have glued small pieces of wood to the underside of the soundboard to control wolf notes (Usually heard in guitars as notes that sound thumpy and lack sustain). The observation was made that adding a small mass to a particular spot makes a similar change as removing a bit of thickness... so you could also sand that spot down a bit to have a similar effect.... Unfortunately, there are also plenty of examples to the contrary - where gluing a piece of wood to the top in some place makes it sound worse.... but generally, fixing top cracks is always beneficial. Thanks John

Author:	nickton [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broken guitar sounds better
Here's some pics of my latest disaster: there are at least five of these splits...Can't find my digital humidity gauge since moving. I'm considering patching with CA and painting it a solid color. Life goes on.

Author:	DennisK [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broken guitar sounds better
Lots of good stories here. And of course we can't forget the time Ervin Somogyi cut the bridge on a cheap guitar in half to demonstrate how it ruins the tone, but it sounded better instead. But then he tried it on one of his own and it did make it sound worse, because it was loose enough to begin with. I think we should give this a trendy name. How about RRV, randomized retro voicing. Go play a show with it and smash it on the stage at the end. Take the carcass home and glue it back together and see if it sounds better. No? Go get it caught up in the buffing wheel and watch it fly across the room. Fix it up again... still not good enough. Toss a lit match inside and let it burn for a minute, then put it out and patch up the bad spots. Finally got it! Bottom line is, you got lucky and discovered a way you could have made it sound better in the first place, by putting an added mass and/or stiffener wherever that crack was. So next time try to duplicate that effect without having to break it first And preferably just by adjusting the existing braces, rather than having to glue a new lump on. But lumps are certainly fair game if they improve things.

Author:	truckjohn [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broken guitar sounds better
lol... I think you gotta ask.... Did it sound better because you fixed the crack and the top was then working right...... Or... Did it sound better because you added a bit of mass in that spot? I suppose you could try shaving down the cleat to almost nothing - does the sound get worse? Then, add a bit of weight in the form of poster putty or something along those lines.... Does the sound get better? Thanks

Author:	jfmckenna [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broken guitar sounds better
Do you mean like a saw cut through the center of the bridge perpendicular to the bridge? Gives me an idea for my cheapo camp fire guitar. DennisK wrote: :lol: Lots of good stories here. And of course we can't forget the time Ervin Somogyi cut the bridge on a cheap guitar in half to demonstrate how it ruins the tone, but it sounded better instead. But then he tried it on one of his own and it did make it sound worse, because it was loose enough to begin with. I think we should give this a trendy name. How about RRV, randomized retro voicing. Go play a show with it and smash it on the stage at the end. Take the carcass home and glue it back together and see if it sounds better. No? Go get it caught up in the buffing wheel and watch it fly across the room. Fix it up again... still not good enough. Toss a lit match inside and let it burn for a minute, then put it out and patch up the bad spots. Finally got it! Bottom line is, you got lucky and discovered a way you could have made it sound better in the first place, by putting an added mass and/or stiffener wherever that crack was. So next time try to duplicate that effect without having to break it first And preferably just by adjusting the existing braces, rather than having to glue a new lump on. But lumps are certainly fair game if they improve things.

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