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Made by hand, what do YOU do?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=30846		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  David Newton [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Made by hand, what do YOU do?
Instead of buttering up someone else's thread about "faster and better" ways, I thought to post about "slow and out-of-touch-with-modernity" guitar building techniques.
I work a regular 40 hr job, and build guitars evenings and on weekends, using some power tools, but with as many hand tools and hand methods as I can rationalize. I began building back in the hippie days, when all hand work was considered "truth".

Of course I no longer moralize about such things, but still enjoy the quiet of the shop. I like to join plates with a hand plane, cut mortises and v-joints with a back saw, and a pull saw. I use a dremel router, but from time to time use a gramil and chisel to cut rosette channels.
I'm scared of table saws, and only have a 14" band saw.
I will have 3 or 4 instruments going at one time, but none of them will be the same pattern, so essentially I build "one at a time".

I was wondering how many builders here are of the same mind, and what you do for the slow, quiet joy of it?
Author:  Pat Foster [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
I trade speed, sometimes accuracy, noise and dust for slow, quiet and shavings when I can, except for thickness sanding plates. I use a scraper often. For cutting billets for bracing or necks and making fixtures or jigs I use the table saw. Most holes are done on the drill press. My favorite finish process is FP'ed shellac, but more often I brush varnish. I have not yet sprayed a finish.

If I were doing this to put food on the table, perhaps I'd go for the faster stuff, but I also work 40 hours a week, so I value peaceful hours in the shop. When working on the two guitars my kids and I are building for them between paid builds, I definitely lean towards quiet and safe, plus they learn something about using planes and chisels and the FP process.

Pat

P. S. My first inlay, an elaborate fretboard vine with a flower pot headstock on a banjo was done into ebony with NO power tools, around 1975. I had no job, no money and lots of time. I started work on a replacement neck soon after I strung up the banjo. It was unusable. The sale of the banjo later helped finance a sailboat. I still have the neck, but can't bear to part with it after all the sweat and blood (literally) that I expended on it.
Author:  James Orr [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
Rosette channels, binding ledges, headstock profile, and sanding are the only things I use machines for at this time.
Author:  JasonMoe [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
I use hand tools as much as possible. I love using hand planes on the tops. Less dust too. I use a dremel for binding, but I always end up using a small chisel in areas to get it right on.
Author:  crich [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
I've been tagged as a neanderthal from some that watched me work. If I'm jointing a board less than 6 feet long I can edge joint it quicker with a hand plane faster than with my jointer, jointers scare me. Lacquer makes me ill for days so I'm OK with oil varnish or FP. My thickness sander does get used quite often, but then I can't hear the radio. Clinton
Author:  Michael.N. [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
I own a couple of Routers but it's many years since I used them. When I did, things went wrong rather quickly!
The only other power tool is my Bandsaw. Doesn't get used a great deal but it comes in useful for making inlay.
You can get pretty quick with hand tools but I've yet to see anyone do binding channels faster than someone using a Router.
I prefer using a brushed on finish to French Polishing. For me it's lost that allure. I used to French Polish a lot of furniture and Hi-Fi components and I guess that knocked it out of me.
Author:  woody b [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
Neck carving, brace shaping, final thickness on tops and backs. I do 90% or more of my sanding by hand, with blocks. After using a few types of jigs and power tools I now radius my fingerboard by hand.
Author:  Ian Cunningham [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
I love hand tools. I'll cut binding slots and rosette channels by hand, I'll bend sides over a pipe rather than a Fox system. I'll use a hand plane to thickness wood, and a scraper for the finer work. Dovetails are another thing I enjoy doing by hand. The only way to radius a fingerboard is with a plane IMO. I love my band saw and my drill press though, and I do want a spindle sander someday, but my preferences lay in quiet, smooth, and an ability to use a skill I've developed.
Author:  Pete Brown [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
Todd Stock wrote:
just do whatever will get the task done to my standard.

I'm with Todd on this one, however, for many of us it seems it's as much about the journey as it is about the destination. Whatever floats your boat.

Where hand tools are concerned, I don't have the skills or the patience to acquire them and opt for power tools in many cases in the interests of accuracy and consistent results. I sucked at woodwork at school - perhaps if I'd had access to a thickness sander and a router I'd have achieved better grades. ;)
Author:  Andy Birko [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
I plan on using a hand plane to flatten the table on my CNC router... :shock:
Author:  nickton [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
I'm just starting in luthiery. Does anyone know someone who wants to donate a CNC machine to my cause? I'll pay for shipping.
... [headinwall] [:Y:] laughing6-hehe duh
Author:  DennisK [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
Only power tools I use are a Dremel router for rosettes, inlay pockets, and truss rod slots, and drill press for anything requiring a larger bit than my hand crank drill can take (usually just tuners and barrel bolts).

Plate thicknessing done with hand planes and scraper, cutting out plates and neck/headstock roughing out done with coping saw, various straight cuts done with ryoba saw.

I do use mostly pre-sized blanks from luthier suppliers rather than lumberyard wood though, to save needing a bandsaw/tablesaw/jointer/etc. to resaw plates and neck blanks and binding strips and such. I would like to try my hand at wood salvaging, aside from needing all the tools and space. Might be some big enough black walnut, sycamore, sugar maple, oak around here to get 2 piece backs from, and osage orange and persimmon for fingerboards and bridges. Nothing really good for tops though. But lots of great salvage redwood available from out west :)
Author:  David Newton [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
I agree Todd, there is no "purity" with either hand or machine. I'm not trying to gin up any smugness against the machine.
But it's unbalanced.
There are plenty of threads about machines. I wanted to maybe let a beginner see there are some good guitars built mostly by hand methods, and a huge investment is not required to begin, or even to continue.

I enjoy having a shop without a spray room. I do own a compressor, I use it to air up my bicycle tires, those hand pumps, now that's work!
Author:  crich [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
A certain amount of hand tool skills are required to build guitars IMHO. You can pick up a decent handplane for $45 versus a power planer or jointer. What better way to learn the wood than with hand tools? Clinton
Author:  the Padma [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
Well me been making sawdust since me was a,, have a full blown break out shop in the basement and hate the sound of them machines...so after the break out, which I only do once or twice a year, it all comes in to the upstairs shop that has a belt sander a dremil, bench top drill press and band saw. and thats enough for noise makers.

Regarding what I do for the slow, quiet joy of it? Simple , me enjoy it.


Blessings
Author:  SteveCourtright [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
I started when my boys were little. After I put them to sleep, I would use hand tools in the basement shop, because they are quiet, to make furniture. I built an entire bed, queen size, with hand planes, chisels and hand saws. No sandpaper even. Back then I was kind of a snob about it - I'll admit it - but it was my best option and I loved learning how to be proficient with a hand tool. Now I use whatever works best for the job. Often that is the big belt sander, thickness sander or band saw.

It's my opinion that hand tool skills inform how to set up and use power tools better because you understand how the tool interacts with the wood.
Author:  Yvonne Bonifas [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
Still feel just a beginner here after nearly two years, and I build for pleasure and to counteract the effects of working in a bureaucracy. Build mainly ukes and starting on a Terz guitar now.

My workshop is only 6 feet by 10, so everything needs to earn its place. I couldn't do without my bandsaw and the drillpress is very useful. However the satisfaction of getting a handplane to work just right is so great - I have a little Lie Nielsen block plane that I end up using for just about everything, thicknessing, fingerboards, trimming rosettes and binding, braces, trimming sides and kerfing. It is so easy to adjust and has so many uses despite not having an adjustable mouth. I went on a course to learn tool set up and it wa well worth it - under supervision I renovated an old Stanley No 4 plane with a new Hock blade and it's fabulous to use now - when I can get it adjusted right. I wish I could get the hang of shooting joints better, it seems a really efficient method but I often end up resorting to sandpaper. Oh and an old engineers block that was recycled from a factory comes in very useful, I stick sandpaper to it, though I wouldn#t have bought one new.

I love using a few good chisels, scrapers and a spoke shave or two for necks, makes me feel Im some kind of craftsman. I fancy a pair of skew chisels, I think Cumpiano recommends them and having tried to carve a few necks I can see why. I use a Dremel for rosettes and binding, just couldnt trust myself to do it with a chisel, - I love my Dremel though if starting again I might get a Proxxon instead. If I had the space I would get a 6x4 belt sander, and maybe a small table saw although they do scare me. A radius dish would be good too. No space for spraying so it's TruOil for me but Im happy with that.

I had a Veritas large hold down for Christmas and it's great, I have a feeling it is going to rival my little block plane for sheer versatility and pleasure in use.

The length of time it takes me to do things discourages me sometimes, although Im not trying to earn a living it would be nice to come closer to covering my costs at minimum wage rates. In a few weeks Im going to take a week's leave fromw work and try to complete a tenor uke in a week - we'll see. :?
Author:  Michael.N. [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
I have a set of skew chisels. They only get used for neck 'V' joints. You might consider a large double beveled knife, which is effectively like a set of skew chisels. Traditionally such a knife was used a lot in carving Neck Heels.
Author:  Haans [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
I admit to being a power tool guy, because I believe in saving what's left of my body. My hands, arms, shoulders and neck are about shot from "hand carving" mandolin tops and backs. However, I do a lot of things on my machines the slow way. I suppose I could make all kinds of jigs and use routers, but I prefer to bandsaw a lot of things that could be machined. I make a lot of use of my edge sander to shape braces in the rough after they are bandsawn, fingerboards are bandsawn and edge sanded, necks are rough shaped on spindle sanders and the edge sander, and pegheads on drums chucked in the drill press. I couldn't do finishing without the spray booth.
To me, the hand work is in final tuning of the braces and top/back.
Author:  David LaPlante [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
I sort of come down with Todd on this one in that I do whatever seems practicable and which produces the best results for me.
A little bit of hand planing to evaluate top wood but by and large thicknessing with a sanding machine. I have a jointer but it's not good enough or big enough to do tops so I use a long plane and a shooting board for those. Of course a band saw to rough out necks but otherwise a draw knife, spokeshave, carving knives, file and sandpaper to shape. Peghead slots and shaping done with a router and template guides though except for the final thickness for which I use a little handmade plane made and given to me by my London friend Peter True
The only jig I have is the one used to guide a handsaw for cutting the slots in the Spanish foot to accept the sides. and of course my solera and external form.
A router and various cutter bits all the way for binding ledges and most definitely my little Proxxon and Micromark miniature table saws for making marquetry and inlays.Plus lots of little planes and chisels for brace shaping, scrapers for binding etc.
Oh, and very low tech French polish for finish.
Author:  Mark Groza [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
I use both power tools and hand tools when building guitars. I use what i feel will get the job done the best way for the outcome of the product. I do like the calming effect i get when useing my hand tools. The power tools give me the opposite effect which i don't like much. I really try to not use as many power tools as i can because of this. I'm never in a hurry to get one done, so the speed of the power tools doesn't matter much to me. I will try to save my arms and hands as much as i can though. My thickness sander is my favorite power tool. I try not to use the table saw whenever i can and use my bandsaw in it's place alot. I don't like sawdust from sanding and use chizels and scrapers alot to reduce the fine dust it creates. When it comes to safety, i think of my dust collection machines playing that important role of keeping my lungs more healthy.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
Oh yes, sanding. I positively detest it. If I could get away with a scraper finish (everywhere) I'd dump the evil dust cloud.
Author:  DennisK [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
Michael.N. wrote:
Oh yes, sanding. I positively detest it. If I could get away with a scraper finish (everywhere) I'd dump the evil dust cloud.

I do all my finish sanding sitting out on the front porch with an old T-shirt to set the guitar on, and a fan next to my face to blow the dust away. Still end up with slightly mahogany tinted boogers, so it's not perfect, but it's quite relaxing when the weather is decent. Way better than wearing a dust mask the whole time, or breathing the fully concentrated cloud.
Author:  Chris Ensor [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
Neck carvings, bridge carvings, side bending (kinda a hand process when you do it on a pipe), end wedges....
Author:  WudWerkr [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made by hand, what do YOU do?
This is actually a tough question when I stop and ponder it completly , I really dont use alot of hand tools at all . Mostly powered equipment . I guess mainly , in my case, I am a bit adhd and need to see progress every night when im done or i get disinterested .I am sure the quality suffers a bit from that .

I am awed by the hand work I see here and appreciate the excellent talent that many have , [:Y:] [clap] I guess I just dont seem to have the patience . [headinwall]
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