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| Retopping an ovation? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=30824 |
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| Author: | devincox [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Retopping an ovation? |
Well the latest in a string of assaults on my ovation balladeer is a 10" crack in the top in the upper bout. Should I somehow brace the top to stop the split? Will it effect the sound? Can these things be retopped? I'm not real concerned with the looks anymore. Thanks, Devin |
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| Author: | TomDl [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
Should be easy to retop. I always wanted to have one to play with, though I don't really know how the neck attaches, and what sort of thing I would be getting myself into. I suppose you would need to press it as clamps to the body would seem to be impractical. Anyone got a classical body they want to sell? |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
One crack does not indicate the top needs to be replaced. Far from it. Fix the crack and add some splints. Should be fine. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
If it really needs a new top, I think the best procedure is to saw off the old top, fill with potting soil, and put a house plant in it. Makes a great conversation piece! |
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| Author: | Rick Davis [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
Remove the top, close and cleat the crack, clean up the finish, put it on a new rim and back. Use the old body for a canoe paddle, planter, etc. Plenty of learning experience there ... |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
devincox wrote: I'm not real concerned with the looks anymore. Oh man! Talk about leaving yourself wide open.  OK, my vision is to have a pair of them. Cut the tops off and reenforce The rims. then string them up like tennis racquets. I'm telling you, that sport could really take off. And just remember, you saw it here first. |
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| Author: | devincox [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
The top feels bare. I'll get the inspection mirror in the morning. Too cold now. (c: |
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| Author: | David Newton [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
Dang! I knew this would be an Ovation pile-on thread, but I wasn't going to be the first one to take the bait. Some of you are so predictable! There was a guy at the 1978 GAL convention who used an ovation body shell, and was molding his own fiberglas ovation copies. Mind you, this was in the very "religious" days of lutherie. He didn't take it at all well, the joking he got. |
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| Author: | Billy T [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
devincox wrote: Well the latest in a string of assaults on my ovation balladeer is a 10" crack in the top in the upper bout. Are you sure it's a wood crack or a finish crack? Abomovations are notorious(...  ) for finish cracks because of the thickness of the finish. devincox wrote: Will it effect the sound? Oy!!! No comment! devincox wrote: Can these things be retopped? "One" of the problems(amongst others) with these "technological terrors" is how do you hold it to rout out the top to replace. ..and... they are insignificant compared to the power of the force! Out of all the things to do with an Ovation replacing the top is probably about the best as the only ones I've seen, personally, have plywood tops with very, very crappy bracing. The sonic equivalent to cardboard! The best explanation given to me was these things are designed to be played with an amp ...plausible. I think I'd rather listen to the other products made by the Kaman Corporation ..Helicopters! TomDl wrote: I always wanted to have one to play with, though I don't really know how the neck attaches, and what sort of thing I would be getting myself into. A really sloppy mortise and tenon and a LOT of epoxy to take up the slop. All glue used on an Ovation is epoxy.
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
Yes - it can be done.... Yes - they do sound quite a bit better after you do it.... Yes - you will have to learn to work with structural epoxy. Way back in the day - before I knew that it couldn't be done, I ended up buying a pawn shop beater Ovation... The top was a wreck that someone had tried to "Fix"... unsuccessfully.... In my case - the neck was bolted on in it's mortise in the body and glued to the top. I didn't know about the technique of routing the top off inside the bindings - so I sawed the top out just inside the bindings and then chipped out all of the black structural epoxy that holds the top on.... Next, I epoxied basswood linings to the bowl to use as a glue surface for the top. (Why basswood? Well... they sold basswood strips at a local craft store - I soaked them and clothes-pinned them to the inside of the rims to bend them to shape....)... Then proceeded as per normal plan to retop an instrument... It turned out sounding pretty good. If you want to give it a shot - go right ahead. Thanks |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
Sounds like a challange to me that you need to have fun with , as long as it truely needs retopping , and if it all goes south on you and ya mess it up . drill 3 peg holes and glue in legs and stand it in the corner . Then you will always have a " Standing ovation " Waits for the collective olf groans ! |
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| Author: | Danny R. Little [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
A picture would be nice to help judge the split. Since the looks are no longer important to you, I would think the split could be repaired. If the repair failed you could always then remove and replace the top. I would experiment with clamps and tape to find a method to close and align the split then CA the split. Beneath the split I might glue in some small spruce "diamond" shaped patches in the most compromised spots. I will resist the urge to defend Ovation. It is futile. |
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| Author: | nickton [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
might make a better salad bowl than planter. 
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| Author: | Pat Redmiles [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
I've been thinking about this, too, recently. I have an Ovation 12-string with serious finish cracks in the top. But the time I have to work on guitars is limited, and I can build a 12-string in just a little more time than I could re-top my old Ovation. So, it hangs in the shop, gathering sawdust. Maybe someday... |
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| Author: | Pat Redmiles [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
I've been thinking about this, too, recently. I have an Ovation 12-string with serious finish cracks in the top. But the time I have to work on guitars is limited, and I can build a 12-string in just a little more time than I could re-top my old Ovation. So, it hangs in the shop, gathering sawdust. Maybe someday... |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
Devin, if it's a ply top, it probably isn't a wood crack. Can you tell if it's ply? Look at the soundhole, and see if there are layers of wood, or if the grain runs from the top of the top, to the bottom of the top. It would take somebody sitting on it to crack a ply top, or an angry wife. Those guitars are designed to be amplified, I think. But they are good "college" guitars. Also good for the beach. Good luck with it. They do have good projection, because of the shape of the back. 
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| Author: | devincox [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
Attachment: ovationcrack.JPG Its hard to see in the pic but the crack goes all the way through. Its a cedar top. The neck is bolted on and looks to be glued/epoxied to the top. I thought about the difficulty in holding the body while routing the top off but it seems a router table would take care of that complication. thank you, Devin |
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| Author: | Danny R. Little [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
Devin: Consider double stick taping some handles on the bowl before hitting the router table. While a standing Ovation is a good thing, a flying Ovation is a whole other thing. I think securing the neck in a padded vice with the bowl supported by foam on the bench and a laminate router free handed a safe distance from the sides would be better. Would you mind sharing the photos of the removed top and the replacement process? I'm guessing that despite the detractors yours is a high grade top with good bracing. |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
It's true - there is a huge improvement... In my mind - the improvement is about like what you would see from retopping a mid-price factory guitar with a top that has your signature well thought out bracing scheme.... A good thin finish makes a big difference too - especially when you consider that their finish of choice is 1/16" thick epoxy..... The other thing going on is that frequently, you will encounter some miscellaneous experimental bracing scheme the likes of which have never been seen before or since... They were constantly trying out new things.... and going to a "Proven" bracing scheme can really make them sing. Thanks John |
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| Author: | devincox [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
@Danny, I think the handles are a good idea. The bracing pattern is a narrow fan brace. Kind of like classical fan bracing but missing the two outside braces. And the braces are stepped in, cross section, instead of parabolic or rectangular. I will definately post up some pics when then top is off. thanks to all who replied with assistance, Devin |
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| Author: | JasonMoe [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
Are Ovations microwave safe? I had an idea but I lost it when the bondo thread,(s); were going on. I still think some luthier can make a guitar out of bondo, minus the strings and tuners..Maybe we should have a Bondo Guitar challange.... |
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| Author: | devincox [ Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
Well, I mentioned to my son that I was going to retop the guitar and he was not onboard. Apparently, he is after the Willie Nelson look. (c: Oh, well. it's easier for me to patch it and just wait for it to fail completely. Maybe it will break on stage, and he wil consider taking better care of his (I mean, my instruments). Thank you to all who helped, Devin |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retopping an ovation? |
You know the damage doesn't look all that bad... are the braces inside intact? I am thinking you could simply glue the crack back together and support it inside with patches. If the crack is dirty/contaminated then you can simply use a knife to shave out tiny slices of the top wood, then patch it in with small silvers of the same wood. In fact, you can just follow this instruction, no re-topping necessary! http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Structural/Cracks/LG2TopCrack/lg2topcrack.html If the inside of the soundboard is covered in stuff, use a rare earth magnet sander to sand it off on the inside! You can find out about that stuff at frets.com as well! |
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