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| Author: | roby [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | one piece necks |
Hello all,just out of interest do how many out there make one piece necks and what are your thoughts on grain orientation .Thanks Rob |
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| Author: | Ti-Roux [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
Personnaly (and it's only my opinion, maybe I'm wrong), I hate them cause they are ''stupid''. Waste of wood for no good advantage. Less resistant, prompt to break. Maybe aesthetic can play here but, cause I know one piece nekcs are wasteful and less efficient, I find them ''cheap'. Scarf or V joint can be beautiful. my 2 cents Francis |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
I have made them many times, but always have used quartersawn grain orientation. When useing maple, flat sawn will work (fender has made many of those). I do perfer laminated for strength and make most that way. I don't like stacked heals that expose more endgrain to the finish or scarf joints that look like someone was trying to save wood. But that's just me. 
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| Author: | Ti-Roux [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
Even with a one-piece neck the heel expose end-grain, I don't see the difference? But, btw, I hate stacked heel too, I use a block for heel. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
Quartersawn is traditional for steel strings and certainly looks better, although Martin has used perfectly flat sawn necks on lower end models in the past. It doesn't seem to matter much for Honduran mahogany in terms of strength or stability. Laminating does not add strength, unless some of the slices are denser/stronger woods, but has the potential to produce a more stable neck. In my shop one-piece Honduran MH or Sp. cedar necks are far from being wasteful: the "middle waste" is cut up into neck blocks and "tongues" for the inverted Spanish heel, usually 3 per 2 neck billets. With careful orientation of the grain and good joinery stacked heels and scarfed pegheads can be almost invisible. |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
Laurent Brondel wrote: Laminating does not add strength Laminating always adds strength. A glue joint is stronger than the wood it'self.That's why they laminate beams for house construction. It's also more stiff and stable as Laurant stated. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
I hate the look of scarf joint, or any kind of joint at the head, as well as stacked heels, or even heels made from one block added to the neck shaft. I only use quatersawn material for necks, and always use well seasoned material, reinforced with carbon fiber. I doubt grain orentation actually matters much. I use the "waste" from one piece necks for all kinds of stuff, including the things mentioned by Laurent, as well as kerfing, and even back braces on some models where weight isn't a big concern. None of my comments are meant to insult any other builder. I'm not, and won't be insulted by any comments made by another builder. The World of guitarmaking is a big place. There's room for all of us. |
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| Author: | Loren Schulte [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
I dislike wasting wood so much that it's nearly a sickness! I like that I can get 4 necks out of a 3"x4"x30" blank. As for the joints in the heel, if you carefully plan the "stack" for grain match, it can look pretty good. Same for the headstock, although I normally backstrap to hide the joint on the back of the headstock. Then, if despite my efforts the joints are still more noticeable than I prefer, I'll apply a light burst to the heel and headstock areas when finishing. It's a nice look anyway. |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
Quote: Laminating does not add strength, unless some of the slices are denser/stronger woods To strengthen the peghead/shaft area, some of the laminations can be oriented so that the grain is parallel with the peghead. That will definitely strengthen the neck against a broken peghead. However, if you are talking stiffness rather than strength, then you are correct. Quote: I like that I can get 4 necks out of a 3"x4"x30" blank. It amazes me that anyone would take 12/4 mahogany and cut it into a glued-up neck. That is a waste of a different kind....a big waste of money. IMHO, the whole point of a glued-up neck is that you can use 4/4 mahogany, which is much cheaper, and much more available today. When I first started building guitars, I thought that a one-piece neck was unnecessary and extravagant. I would laminate the steel string necks vertically, with three or five plies for the shaft, and wings added for the peghead. Most of those necks were cherry, with a few made of maple or walnut. But when I drifted into the bluegrass realm, nothing would do but to make one-piece mahogany necks for the D-28 copies. Back then, I could buy mahogany 4 X 4's for $3.75 a board foot, which was $5.00 a running foot. That was $5 for each one-piece neck blank. As for grain orientation, I prefer vertical grain for the look. IMHO, grain orientation in mahogany is almost a non issue when it comes to strength, stiffness, or stability. |
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| Author: | jsmith [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
Well, Francis, Ti-Roux, maybe I'm doing something wrong. I'm mainly a one-piece neck person and none of my guitars has come back with a broken neck, yet. In fact, I own the second guitar that I built. It's been strung up at concert pitch (or open G) since early 1979, and even that neck hasn't broken yet. To address your question, roby, I like the grain orientation on my necks to be as close to quartersawn as possible. On the occasions that I do make multiple piece necks, I still do it inneficiently, by using 6/4 or 6/4 flatsawn mahogany (or sapele-or maple) cut two neck profiles out of it, and glue a veneer or three between them. By using the flatsawn in this instance, of course, the orientation of the grain in the neck essentially becomes quartersawn. |
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| Author: | Loren Schulte [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
Quote: It amazes me that anyone would take 12/4 mahogany and cut it into a glued-up neck. Let the amazing commence! |
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| Author: | David Newton [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
I make a glued-up neck with a block heel and v-joint head. If you can get the heel block out of some of the same wood as the neck shaft, and align the grain, the joint will disappear. I have squirreled away a couple blocks of very old 3" mahogany, but see the day I'll cut it down for my normal glued up neck. |
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| Author: | Dave Fifield [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
I was in the Guitar Center the other day and checked out a brand new Martin OMCX1KE that had a manufactured laminated one piece neck. Basically, it was good quality plywood with about 1/16" layers in a "quartersawn" arrangement. It looked good - you get the same nice grain sweep effect at the transition from the neck to the heel as you see on one-piece necks. I would think that it is VERY strong indeed and more resistant to bending in all directions than anything I've built to date (one-piece/laminated/block heel etc.). Dave F. |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
The material Martin uses is called Stratabond. It is impregnated, laminated hardwood that requires no finish. http://www.rutply.com/solutions/stratabond.html |
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| Author: | Ian Cunningham [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
I knew something about those necks seemed wrong. |
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| Author: | Mike Dotson [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
What's 'wrong' with it? A neck's job is to be stiff and stable and that's what that stuff is. Not all that pretty mind you, but so what? |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: one piece necks |
Mike Dotson wrote: What's 'wrong' with it? A neck's job is to be stiff and stable and that's what that stuff is. Not all that pretty mind you, but so what? It's because it's fake and industrial and stuff, man. That wood has no soul, and the soul is in the sound...or maybe it's got a bunch of souls in there from different trees and they're all arguing and being loud and ruining the tone. We should hook it up to an e meter. The above wasn't directed at anyone, I don't think Ian meant there was anything wrong per see, just that he couldn't place what was weird about them. On the aesthetics thing, actually, I think the stuff could look really good if you designed the guitar with that look in mind. |
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